I have heard you can tile these smaller ir mirrors. I have four of them here that I was originally going to do just that but in my projector I haven’t had the need for them yet. I can see that using then behind the pre-condenser could stop the crown glass getting to hot but it may limit how close the Plano surface can get to the arc, I think by memory they are about 4mm thick.
As to the sealed light engine. I would hold up on that approach for now at least when using the pro reflector. If you look at elken’s reflector after being place inside a semi sealed metal box you can see what might happen with no fan cooling. I had a look at mine tonight after reading his post and it has deteriorated as well. Although I have some fan cooling in the rear chamber it isn’t directed at the lamp optics. On my reflector the dichroic coating has discoloured and in one place it is peeling up like when chrome plating gets rust under it. Not a good week for me, first the scooter episode now the reflector. They say bad luck comes in threes so I’m waiting for the third .

yup. I am just doing some work in my light area and noticed an area on the pro reflector that is a little discolored... not too bad... i'll take it out and take side-by-side photo with my "backup" (yup I alwasy buy in twos for some reason).

The mounting of the proflector can have a hole in the back (almost how I have it mounted now) which allows the heat to escape outside the enclosure without changing the basic "light box" design... [ i think anyways ?? ]

sorry about your bad luck... things will change for the better, they always do...

The white glass lenses in the elliptical spotlights just may be that white plate glass that you are looking for I just won two more on eBay so now I have 4.

There is only so many common used for high temp lenses, spotlights and projectors.
Colortran does have a 4.5" elliptical spotlight that might have a nice smaller condenser lens. I think the reflector (and maybe the lamp too) might be perfect for the PJ with a short arc lamp.

The reason I look at the spotlights is because they have been made with high temp glass for 50 years so some old ones are out there for cheep.

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maybe silica

in Post #59 showing your lightbox shelf, collimating frame and lcd frame- the collimating frame appears to be made of metal? but i dont think i saw you mention what you made it with- if so, forgive me, when scanning thru 12+ pages of material in a mad frenzy to look for a tidbit of data... sometimes i miss stuff. I still plan to do mine vertical though you switched over to the horizontal side. Great output though!

Also, is there a reasoning for how you did your internal elements' framing scheme with the inner flat frame connected to outer vertical frame? just wondering if you did it "just because" or if you had a particular reason for it. thanks

Thanks for the list Fulcrum, have you found any lens there that would seem worth investigating? I have bought a few other lenses from SShed that I'll be playing around with. Just FYI.

Thanks mikyd but everythings fine. Just visiting family. I figured you'd be buying more lenses until you get the brightness you looking for in your tests. It's an acceptable loss if you cracked one during a test but if you drop one than thats when I lash myself a thousand times for not being carefull. So far 2000 lashes :angry: on record.

I'm still unable to provide measurements of distance from lcd (unsplit) to trip but if I'd have to guess for now than near the center of the 18" trip (lengthwise) to the lcd is what I had recalled measuring it. Still, if you need measurements then you will have to wait until I get back home.

To answer you pm DAZZ here, I haven't been using the pro reflector since switching to the larger 5" ladle. But before I switched I didn't find any discoloration to the pro when using in my lightbox and with the 4" ladle. I may have to take a closer examination of the reflector once I return. I do notice that the dichroic film is very thin and scratches up very easily even when using a Q-tip to clean off some dust. Very much a maintenance sensitive item.

I think I may just bid for one as well just to kick around a little. I'd prefer throwing my money at experiments like these then on beany babies or usless trinkets.

The collimating fresnel is mounted on a 1/4 mdf with some pine ribs to keep it flat especially from heat. The only parts that are metal for the sled area are the allthreads, nuts and lots of small screws. Heck I even have some velcro that attaches the collecting fresnel fram to the collimator frame, but expect to change this soon. More power to you and a vertical build. My box can go vertical as well if I choose I just have to swing the lcd around (I think) and mount a fs mirror mount close to the triplet. I'm still not totally finish with it's enclosure plus I'm liking the brighter light eminating from a vertical bulb. If I do go vertical with the pj then the bulb will go horizontal and then thats when I may loose some brightness, I just hope it's not that much....but that's left to be tested as well soon.

Originally, I had planned to go vertical with a fold between the lcd and triplet with the idea to remove the innerts out for maintenance but since revamping after finding lost lumens I decided to go horizontal with a bigger trip (18" opaque). So this changed a view ideas around as far as it being accessible for maintenance hence it became a little more complicated build as well. I was concentrating more on procesion and performance than on it's practical appearance. The inner flat frames thats only afixed to the outer frame is the lcd mount and the rear support for the lightbox frame. The rest of the frames between the two are adjustable and slide forwards or backwards, which are just the lightbox frame and the unsplit fresnel frame. Just like pun15her's first and second build with the allthreads, once you get the plains all aligned with each element to the next than you can pretty much slap a pickle barrel over it and it will still do it's job. I like to think of it as working from the inside out rather than outside in.

still waiting on my wide beseler, maybe by next weekend.... well, whenecver you get back, no hurry...been busy with personal stuff this week myself, when you do get back and caught up, don;t forget LCD out of pj measurements so we can all see how far we have to reach for a "Sim quality" build and nopt have to take into account lcd differences!

Simul8r,

Well, I was tempted to buy THESE lenses on ebay, as they are 6 inches dia (original post expired, I don't think anyone bid on them), but when I asked about the FL I was told they are 16 inches (6 X 16). The new posts readily list this information.

However, I believe I'll be purchasing at least one lens from Vincent Lighting that sells both pyrex and white plate, as they are only 10 mins from my house and therefore I won't have to pay for shipping. I'm looking to purchase either the 182017ALT Pyrex (4.5 X 6.5) , 182012ALT White Plate Lens (4.5 X 6.5). There is a (4.5 X 5.1) lens at the very top, but it goes for $118... However, I'm still just gathering parts right now, so it will be a while before I build my pj.

Fulcrum

Simul8r,

I purchased the same 5 inch Soup Ladle that you have for a reflector. What did you use to polish your Ladle? Specifically what kind of polishing paste? Silverware polish?

Thanks,

Fulcrum

Interesting find on the altman lenses. Aren't these the same lenses arizonavideo has? It's really hard to keep up with who has what now since precondensers became a subject of testing and modding.

As far as polishing the ladle. I used Mother's Billet Polish with my dremel and about 2 polishing wheels. I gave it about 2 to 3 applications.

if I was you I'd go for the pyrex lenses... I think the "white plate" they are referring to is tempered crown glass and not nearly as heat resistant as the pyrex....

Mikyd1954,

I'm disappointed in both Altman and their distributors. No one that I've talked or written to, including Altman, knows what Water White Plate is. Vincent Lighting, however, thought the same as you, that the white plate would be simular to crown glass (or even normal glass). So as of now I'm looking at Pyrex, but I'm still curious.

Cheers!

Fulcrum

water white glass, is normal float glass, the only difference is that it has a low iron soda-lime content,,,, normal glass is high in it, thats why it looks blue-green edge on,, water white is called that because when you look edge on it can appear whitish in colour,,

it will crack unless it is tempered version, but even then it cant stand the temps our lamps create, that close,,

this is why that version is used as corrector lens for telescopes, mainly because of its high tranmission of upto 98%

also often used by graphic artists for display glasses

oh also the glass tempered will stand temp varaitions,, but not high temps....

I think they will have a longer fl ,mine have a 165mm fl. You can just look at the snout on the lights the longer the snout the longer the lens.

I have 3 of them now they are 6" x 165mm fl two are clear glass and one is green glass. All of these spotlights get so hot and the lenes do to. I don't know the max temp but I really don't think it is regular glass.

With the short arc lamps I have and the cutout for a 19" LCD the fl of 165mm condensor lens is a little too short. The short arc just makes a nice tight beam. I may sell the 165mm ones and bid on the longer one on ebay. They should be great for a longer arc lamp.

I should do a quick test with a larger lamp. I do have a 400 watt HQI and a regular 400 ed28 lamp to use.

I agree, I finally did find in an altman brochure for a 750watt fixture the phrase
""tempered crown glass(white plate)" ... the confusion comes from aluminosilicate glass also being referred to as "white plate glass"...... and yeah, I'm pretty sure the altman lenses don't sit 5mm from the bulb ...

Ok mikyd, back in my comfy space.

The distance from the LCD to the edge of the rear lens of the 18" opaque is about 19" or about less than 485mm...this with the lens fully extended and maxed forward. The middle of the 18" opaque sits at about 555mm to the LCD.

When fully brought back and maxed to the rear - the edge of the lens is about 14 1/2" or about less than 370mm to the LCD. Hope this helps unless you figured it out already.

Ok, stay tuned fellas. After I do a little modification I'm going to attempt another backyard and take some lux readings. Seems the county fire department wanted to assist me on this.... hehehehe

Welcome home!

Gald to see you are back and active again. County Fire ayah...Speaking of fire always remember to turn on the cooling fan and never let an amature play with your PJ. I did and it was smokin when I got back to my room, no damage done though.

welcome back! hope you had a nice vacation...

thanks, can you fill in this info whenever you get a chance? no hurry, still waiting on my triplet
when I get my beseler in I want to dupe your distances with no lcd in the equation, will use a 9x12 cutout in place of the lcd

bulb(glass)-1->plano -2-> rear fresnel --3-> front fresnel --4-> lcd --5-> rear triplet

movie night with the fire department eh? sounds like a ummmm...hot time sorry, someone had to say it

hi Sim,

just wondering if you tried the 4 5/8"x12"fl condenser with 220 rear frez.

I am thinking about going vertical with pj #2 and with condenser or atleast a light box.

fw

Hey Willy I had askd Sim about this earlier you should be okay with that precondenser as long as you didn't get the 6.5" fl one which I accidently pucrhased. You will have to pay close attention to keep a good airflow over it and a backup lene is always good

Funny you should ask just now, I actually have switched my 317mm to a 220mm frez and using a 4 5/8"x12"fl condenser. Vignetting doesn't look all to good in the numbers but acceptable for homebuilt. At 53"x72" on my small Dalite High Power I'm currently hitting the following readings with paladin's 9 point test image:

92 134 65
117 203 104
70 122 70

Not the greatest spread and still a little more tweaking needed but brighter nonetheless. Heat to the LCD panel has definately increased even though I'm horizontal. I suppose building vertically up heat will get higher so take precaution.

Here's a pic projection with the 220mm frez and 4 5/8" precondenser on the Dalite HPower.

I know you still have some tweaking to go Sim but do you think the 220 rear fresnel setup is better than the 317 so far? My setup is good but the fresenels are now ready to be replaced. The 317 rear was really great I only wish I was able to use that bulb you sent me.

wheres your precondenser placed from arc? about 248 lumens there looks like...not bad.... (I wish)

edit: hey, have you ever done a transmissivemnss test on this lcd?

I'd have to say the 317 or 330. It's alot more easier getting a better spread compared to the a 220 unless someone comes up with that magical condenser to match, plus your helping yourself with regards to heat. Just more pros and no cons.

Hey miky, the precond. is still at the same distance from the arc as it was with the 4.5"x6.5"fl. I should actually recheck this with DAZZ's condenser calculator but I just wanted to see what it looks like quickly. If you noticed my lumens also dropped from 275 to your calculated 248 which means the distances might have to be tweaked or my bulb is beginning to show signs of defficiency while being in the vertical position. The biggest disappointment was when I found out I can't get my 15" lcd panel to switch it's color temp anymore and is stuck in USER's preference mode. In the beginning of the build I was able to switch from 9300, 7800, 6500, user, W-B but not anymore. So, now, I can't recall if I took the HIGHEST reading of 315 when the panel was switchable or the 275 when it might have been stuck.

Sorry, I haven't been able to do the transmissiveness test yet. The less opportunities I have to touch the LCD (unless it's for cleaning) the better chances it has to survive. I'll get around to it somehow soon I hope, I'm curious myself.

Interesting, I just took another lux reading after couple of hours on and these are what I came up with. Still 53"x72".

87 140 74
114 215 112
68 129 80


.......hmmmm, just noticed my rear frez warping a little from the heat.

I hear you on the lcd... I keep meaning to take mine out and do a "build only" measurement, but I just know it'll die the next time I mess with it waiting to see how the hqi lamp results are.... you're going to try it with your s51?

Yes I am, thanks to A/V and his tests at least I have a base for which to try this new lamp. Just wish I found some specs on it to see whats it's limits are. Thanks to GadgetSmith's Osram file it seems some of these HQI's with higher color temps were universal positionable but lower in lumens . Just have to cross my fingers and see. BTW, anybody know where I can obtain the mounting brackets for these type of lamps?

Sim have a look at our plogs,,, dazza ostang etc for mounting,,, or are you refering to the FC2 mounts?

Thanks elken, I don't even know what to call them. But I'll research more for sure.

I'm sure I saw them at topbulbs you coud always call and find out they were pretty helpful with the last time I checked.

here tis

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... somewhere it says that -TS lamps are only to be positioned horizontally... don't remember where I read that... I think the BT lamps are universal... can't seem to find that though... story of my life...

FC2 bases... not easy to come by in the US... DYIProCo has them on their website but I would NOT suggest going to them. (PM me if you really want to hear my poor experience...), but suffice to say you'll probably not get them even if you do order from them... I PM'd with Dazzz/Elken about getting them from AUS... but they where to get expensive after shipping, etc... There must be place here in the US... AV I think posted link in his HQI-TS thread... and best of all... LL will likely be carrying them soon as they will also be selling a DE lamp ! ... at least I would think they will be FC2 bases...

gs

they are expensive but you can get them from aquarium places....usually they don't say "fc2" but are referred to as hqi sockets.... but you have to get the sockets for 250watt DE bulbs or greater..150watt use a different socket I'm pretty sure
http://www.aquariumsupplycompany.com/catal...476/2761895.htm
heres a pair for 18.60 ...you can even get a mouning bracket for them...another 11$ though...I'd rather diy
http://www.oceanhomesetc.com/store/index.p...0f85ae469f28621

good find mikyd.

one thing about the brackets. a 250 and 400 bracket (didn't see a 400 bracket on the website) are different lengths, even though the actual Fc2 recepticles are the same... this is because the 250W HQI is a different length than the 400.

gs

EDIT that is not a Fc2 socket. oops.

I bought one from some one selling just one socket for $10.00 total. He listed it as a 250 watt but the socket says 1000 watt 5000v on the side. The metal mounting bracket was too short for the 400 watt lamp.

When mouting the sockets make sure you leave room for the lamp to expand so set the lamp ends apart. Leave play. the socket is a floating socket so the ends must be far enough apart.

You could run your lamp vertical just expect a shorter life. Cool the hot end a little extra and let us know how long it last! You should still get a few thousand hours if you are not driving the lamp too hard.


I sent the guy on e-bay an email to see if he will have the HQI lamp back in stock. It's more fun if the lamp is $20.00 rather than $70.00. I was going to find out how hard you could drive one with a lot of cooling ( last time I tried the fan moved and the lamp melted so I still don't know) for $20.00 I might do it for $70 well nope. The HQI at 800 watts? HOT HOT !!!

If I'm right the picture of your lamps either the lamp arc tub is longer or the lamp is shorter than my HQI 400

didn't look too closely at the brackets, 11$ for a little piece of flat metal seemed excessive
how long are the 400 watt bulbs?

mikyd,
End to end measurements:
the 250W is 162mm (venture brand)
the 400W is 204mm (osram brand)

those brackets are a bit more involved than meets the eye... they specifically space the Fc2 bases to create "slop" where the lamp can "float" (as AV describes above). The screws are actually shoulder bolts, so when tightened, the Fc2 bases have some "wiggle room"... not suggesting it's worth $11, but it's not just a piece of metal with screws in it... there is a bit of precision involved... although, not much (ie. i'll also DIY it before I spend $11 on one )

AV, the 70W and 150W HQI lamps use a difference socket type (R7s or RX7s or something like that)... they are a pin type with spring loading between the mounts, they are not the same as the 250W and 400W mounts (Fc2).

cheers,
gs

Sim,,, just taken some pics hold fast,, these are in my old haas case a canterlevered mount from side,, BRB

here tis, hope it helps
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more
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Lamp length 205mm distance from edge of socket mounted to other mounted socket is 230 mm (edge defined as to the right of where 'X' mark is on right hand socket)

I will do another shot from above (macro shot) of inside of socket to show how it holds lamp

ok here's some more shots, PS one socket is free to move for expansion..

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also take note of deposits,, this is why uside down was never satisfactory,,, even while lamp is at full temp,, there are still deposits on envelope..

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last one,,, hope this helps SIM...................

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