Like many here I’m retrofitting my current box for the new pro-lens/reflector. My current rig is inoperable due to first an eballast failure and then the destruction of my LCD during an Anti-glare removal. This has given me some time to finally collect and post my first experience, and to consider an updated design. Below is a summary of the old design and what I will be doing in the coming 2 weeks. Big thanks for all those who keep pushing the envelope in what these PJ’s can produce.

Old Rig: Standard 17” Straight Path-Hyundai L72s (17”)
-Standard Triplet
-Fresnel’s from 3dlens.com #A310a and #A310b
-eballast
-Ushio S400DD Lamp (Horizontal Placement)
-Reflector: 4 inch ladle polished

Cons:

1. When using a 17” LCD and standard triplets you will have two problems. First your projector will end up in your lap since you can’t move it farther then 7-8 ft from the wall without making an image so large that your neck is permanently kinked. Second, you will get roughly 80% of your screen in focus and the rest will be fuzzy. This is not a problem in movies but in gaming or computing it’s annoying.
2. No HDCP support. Can’t watch HD over the air signals or cable w/o buying a good HDTV card. BTW MyHD makes a good card ($199) from what I’ve read.
3. Anti-glare removal failed because when masking off the FCC I used a packing tape that was TOO adhesive and one of my ribbons tore.
4. I had backlight or “ghosting” issues with this panel. Basically, in very dark scenes you could see several horizontal bands of light. They were not very bright but annoying. I read one post where someone removed the anti-glare and this issue went away. I’ve also read the opposite.
5. Center of screen seemed to be the lightest and when I lowered contrast the information in the black levels suffered.
6. Horizontal placement of S400DD bulb put off a very slight greenish tinge and the arch of the bulb did not fully cover the screen. My reflector probably should have been closer to the lens too, but I couldn’t figure out how to cut it nicely.

Advantages:

1. Higher resolution is always nice.
2. Striping the L72s is easy and there are no FCC issues
3. Anti-glare removal went well with paint stripper method, but you have to very very careful with those FCC’s! Water method does not seem to work with this panel.
4. Overall the colors were nice and the performance of movies in this setup seemed about average for a non-antiglare setup and a make-shift screen.
5. Total cost was about $600 minus the screen, still cheaper then a commercial PJ at this res


What I want to change:

1. I want HD over-the-air support, as well as HDCP if I can afford it.
2. Longer Throw so my PJ is behind me, and edge to edge focus, both of which will be solved with the Pro Lens.
3. More even screen lighting. I hope to achieve this though vertical bulb placement with the new T15 Pulse Strike Bulb and Pro Reflector.
4. Must have improved shadow and dark scene information. This may get resolved by the more powerful T15 PS bulb/pro reflector setup. I may also purchase a LCD that has anti-reflection but not anti-glare. Hopefully this will solve the anti-glare issue without having to remove anything. http://www.screentekinc.com/sony-xbrite-lcd-screens.shtml . Their online techie said these panels were basically: LCD, TAC, Polar, and Protective High gloss coat. They also look very similar to my L72s now that its anti-glare is stripped.

New Rig: 17” Pro Straight Path

-LCD TV’s: Sony MFM-HT75W (no AG); View Sonic N1750W; Philips 17PF8946/37B
-LCD Mon: Hyundai L72s; NEC 70GX2 (no AG, unknown FCC issues); Samsung 740N
-LL Pro Lens
-LL Pro Reflector
-LL Pro Fresnels
-Ushio T15 Pulse Strike Bulb
-Pulse Start M135 Core and Coil Ballast from 1000bulbs.com

*might convert to a vertical design if AG or AR degrades quality of image when facing the bulb.


Testing Sequence (screen shots forth coming):

Test 1:
1. LCD w/ AG or AR intact facing the bulb
2. Bulb sits horizontal

Test 2:
1. Same as above, Bulb sit vertical

Test 3:
1. Same as above, LCD is flipped with AG/AR side facing the lens

Test 4:
1. If AG poses a problem then flatten down with Peek Polish and redo starting with the best bulb setup from above.
2. If AR poses a problem then *cry* and convert box to a vertical design.

Old rig:

Old Rig:

Old Rig:

*note the Foil air duck was painted black later to zero down the backlight/ghosting issue

Old Rig: Screen shot #1, no adjustments to PJ or driver settings

Old Rig: Screen shot #2, increased contrast in vid driver

*sorry i never took comparison shots, will do in the next build!

Old Rig: Final Screen shot, best it got with both PJ contrast and vid driver modifications. AG was intact.

Old Rig: Final Crop

Old Rig: Backlight/ghosting issue

This is a simulation since my LCD is broken. These vertical bands were quite obvious when the movie/game was dark.

I suspect if you replaced the ladle reflector with the new pro refector or the Ikea napkin holder those ghosties will go away.

I thought the same thing too, and actualy removed everything from the back that was shiny (including ladel) and the ghosting still showed up. I'm thinking now it might have been a reflection at the front of the box, possibly off of the circuit boards or the white vga cable. A reflection that was being picked up by the front fresnel and then projected.

I spent the last week upgrading the old rig. Here are some comparison shots.

Hyundai setup: S400DD is horizontal
Samsung setup: T15 is vertical

Wow, that is a pretty impressive change.

you did quite a nice job on your first pj, any shots of the new build?

you said you removed the ag from the samsung 730b? what did you use to remove the ag? i am looking into doing it also!

ditto!

I used Klean-Strip's KS-3 Premium Stripper and it worked like a charm. You can find it in all sizes at OSH, or in gallon jugs at Home Depot.

Be sure to take extra care of your ribbons when stripping. I ruined my first LCD when the packing tape covering the LCD ribbons was too adhesive and I pulled it off the wrong way (took up some of my ribbon too). On top of that I found the packing tape was too susceptible to the stripper, and it would not stick to the LCD very well after the stripper had been applied. This meant stripper could seep under and touch the ribbons. Blue masking tape does not lose its adhesion to the LCD as much when stripper is applied, though you should take care to wipe excess stripper off.

This time around I cut small pieces of electrical tape, folded over one end so it could be pulled up easy, and attached one to each ribbon, going the same direction as the ribbon. This way I could pull the tape off without stressing the edges of the ribbon. Next I used blue masking tape, one side sticks to LCD, and the other sticks to a small piece of foil. The foil will protect circuit board (no need to use excessive tape). So your ribbons have two layers of protection. First is the electrical tape, which is not as permeable as the blue mask, and then second the blue masking tape which does not lose its grip when the stripper is applied. The foil just saves you from having to tape the circuit board.

I hope this helps. Good luck!

Ok here are some box shots. Big changes, but not as pretty as the projection shots I'm afraid. The front can be pushed back almost completely into the box frame which makes moving and storing it much easier. I can't ceiling mount it in my apartment so I got this handy cart from the container store ($118). The JET air filter is not hooked up to the box, its just there to keep the cart from falling over in an earthquake. Wild mini Zen garden is for my wife

extension is just a wood frame with black felt stabled to the inside to cut down on weight

....

How long did you leave the stripper on?

Did it only take one application?

Was it easy to clean off? What did you use to clean it?

I used a cheap sponge brush for application, and I covered the entire LCD. Right after I applied the first coat I went back and put down a second one since the AG starts to absorb the first and the more stripper you apply the less re-applications you have to do. I waited 15 min and then scraped the AG off with a cheap plastic putty knife (you need about 3 medium sized and one small knife, and you should sand off any burrs you find on the blade).

Most of the AG will come off with the first application. Right after you scrape you should wipe off the area with denatured alcohol (I don't recommend rubbing ac. because it’s not as clean and will leave residue). You will find that the glue holding the AG to the polar will start to dry once you scrape the AG. This dried glue does not come off very well with the alcohol so you will need to do a second application of stripper, not at thick as the first, to pick up any AG stragglers and glue residue. Lastly I made a third application on the outer edges of the LCD with a cue-tip. The small scraper is handy for the edges.

This probably more than you asked for if you have more questions I will try to help the best I can.

what does the ag look like? does it come off cleanly after the 15 minutes? i just want to find out what i am looking for when i try to do this. and also the side that the ag is on, is the side that is opposite of the bulb when in the projector?

i really like your method for lengthening the box.. i may borrow it when/if i decide to make the pro lense upgrade. any more screen shots of the new lens in action?

AG looks very fuzzy, or at least it makes reflections look fuzzy. It strips 'easy' based on two factors: 1st the amount of sanding you do to make the AG more receptive to the stripper, and second how well you coat the AG with stripper. It’s not a hard process though it seems pretty scary when doing it. The AG is the side that faces the bulb in a horizontal setup. In vertical setups the AG side faces the triplet. Remember your triplet will reverse and flip the image so you have to compensate for that, a vertical setup will correct the reverse because of the mirror so you can direct the light through the LCD in the way it was originally intended.

Check out this section for AG images:

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...pic=7882&st=806

I'm glad you like it. Your plog was what got me into 17" a few months ago! Here are some more box shots of the Pro Lens sled. I will try to post new screen shots tonight.

Pro Lens sled from the back. Note the small space below the lens sled - this lets it clear your LCD circuit boards.

With front removed, lens can be moved up and down by 10mm for adjustments.

Front of box. You can see the rails that keep the sled in place. Since the sled walls are recessed I had to add felts to the top, bottom and sides...kinda like mud flaps.. to keep the light from escaping.

Another comparison between my old rig and the new one. The bulb is horizontal in the Hyundai and vertical in the Samsung.

i just finished removing the ag on the side facing the bulb for a horizontal setup and now the picture is all white. i see some of the picture but its really bright and hard to make out. what is the right side you said to remove? did i remove the polarizer also. the film had a gray color to it. not sure what to do. any help?

The correct side to remove is the side that appears 'hazy.' The link I posted in the plog showed what this side looks like. The other side of the LCD looks very different from the AG side (you can see clear reflections vs. not seeing clear ones on the AG side). Some people remove both the AG and the clear protective layer (I think it’s called TAC) on the non AG side. I have not removed the TAC on the non AG side of my LCD, though I believe you can do it the same as the AG side, minus the sanding. Don't just take my word on it though, please check out the Extreme mods section of LL. http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8912

It’s hard to say what my AG looked like because it was rendered a gooey mess by the stripper, but a light grey sounds about right. Here is link where Simul8r removed both the AG and Polar: http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...pic=7882&st=806 . Look at the screen shots of the film being pulled from the LCD. If what you removed was THAT dark, then you probably removed the polar. You can get polar replacements but I haven’t done this so I can't help here.

If you can still see an image, and its not distorted by lines or half gone then your ribbon cables are probably ok. Sorry to hear about your problem. I hope you can get a fix without having to do a replacement. If you repost this question in Extreem mods or help I'm sure you will get some feedback from those who have removed their polar.

Yes it sounds like you removed the front polarizer. You need to get a replacement. Look in the Extreme Mods threads to find out where to get them and which one to get.

phero, are you experiencing any flickering with the T15 being vertical?

The T15 bulb flickered only a little the first time I fired it up (first start was vert.), and that lasted maybe 30 seconds at most. It does not flicker at all now. I'm running it on a SOLA 400W MH Pulse Start Core/Coil ballast.

phero, I really like your results and have decided to pretty much copy the components that you used.

I have a few questions though,
I plan on purchasing the same monitor and was wondering what are the height and width of the inside of your box?

Someone mentioned above if you had any flickering when you placed your bulb vertical. Is this a common thing for bulb flickering and is that why I don't see setups using it?

Hi Viggilyboy

Thank you. I have not had any issues with bulb flicker. I did read about it a few months back and I think the person who had the problem was using an eballast. I'm running it on a core/coil and never had the oppurtunity to try a vertical setup with the eballast since my first one crapped out on me. I have been very happy with the components in this setup, especially using a core/coil ballast since it does not cause interferance with my LCD, and with the end results; though, if I had the time I would rebuild the box from scratch. There are three things I would change:

Size:
My current box is not ideal since it was modified from a regular horizontal bulb/standard lens/17inch setup. The inside dimensions are: 14h x 16 3/8w. Depending on how you mount your LCD and fresnels you might not end up with enough headroom to do vertical bulb optimally. If size isn't a major issue I would add an inch to the height to insure enough room to put the arch in the center of the LCD/Fresnel and Lens. Right now my light arch is 15cm higher then it should be, and this does have a significant effect on the bottom 1/4 of the screen (i'm guessing somewhere around 10-20% darker). Wide screen movies are not affected since they are mostly in the center of the screen, but if you pc a lot or play games it can be annoying.

Lens Focus:
Second change is to make a longer box and go for a more advanced lens focus, using PVC or something like others have done. My extension apparatus is not as precise as I would like it to be, and I have to jiggle it here and there to get most of the screen in focus. Also, because the lens is so heavy, it tends to lower the extension a bit, thus causing the light to bend slightly as it enters the lens and create some slight focus issues at the very bottom of the screen.

Fan Noise Level:
Last change I would make is to use two 120m fans running half speed on a cheapo fan controller. My wife thinks the fan noise level of a single 120m pushing 80cfm is not bad, but believe me, its much louder then a computer.

I hope this helps

phero, you mentioned your unsure how to notch your ladle, well I used a dremel. If you can get the bulb closer into the ladle reflector you will gain more light....then there is the precondenser for even more. Check DAZZ's and my 2nd build. Just FYI.
sim

Hmm I’m using the pro-reflector about .5cm from the bulb and no ladle. Maybe someone else asked...but actually I was over at your plog earlier ogling your new rebuild. You are tempting me into the world of precondensers, and sigh, another rebuilt. HAHA.

You are using the ladle as a mount for the reflector right? Does it also help to spread the light to the outer edges of the LCD - or just benefit when a precondensor is present?

phero, I am really clueless when it comes to the lighting components of these projectors

Is there a particular reason why you went with the different ballast combination than the one offered by lumenlab?

You also spoke about interference when using an eballast, I have not read anything on that before could you explain?

Oh, and using two 120mm instead of one would definitly make that thing whisper quite especially if you went with a Nexus 120mm. Those things are near silent.

Being into overclocking like I am I have 4 120mm fans running in my pc and had to get a fan controller so I could sleep at night.

Thanks for the reply.

Oh, my bad on the ladle. Yes and no on the mount part. I can mount the pro without the ladle but I only added it because I obtained a few more lumens from the extended sides around the arc. I've just finished carving up a 5" ladle and polished it. The 4" reflector was half an inch smaller and was not encompasing the total width of the 4.5" diameter precondenser. I'll be testing this without the pro reflector in it and see how it performs.

Phero,

Your plog has answered many questions I have had in my mind for a while, such as AG Removal, vertical T15 bulb orientation, T15 bulb with a coil ballast, and T15 bulb flickering for a vertical orientation.

Your plog has also included many of the ideas in your projector that I have had, but being a newbie I have not been able to try them out yet. Ideas such as the light shield at the top of the box for the air inlet, a large slide to shorten the length of the box (I probably won't do this one now as there are focus issues), and the use of an e-ballast (I may not do this one either, since yours failed).

Also, you appear to be a true craftsman, your first box is outstanding. It looks crisp and clean, and professional! What type of wood do you have on the outside of your box? It really gives it a nice finishing touch... it looks like you bought it from a store.

Lastly I want to ask about your E-Ballast failure...What caused it to fail? Any words of wisdom on how to avoid a failure with this type of ballast? How long did you have it before it failed? What is the make on that one? Would you buy another one or recommend it to anyone? What type of coil ballast are you using now, and who makes it, and where can someone buy one, and its cost (ball park)?

Sorry for all the questions, but you have a very interesting plog, and I'm looking to use the T15 bulb for the high light output, but I'd like to avoid the high cost of the LL E-ballast if I can.

Fulcrum

Ok here is my take on the eballasts, others may disagree. First I'm not the only one who has had problems with the eballast, but improvements have been made to the manufacturing so they may be ok now, best to do an 'eballast' search and see what you find. The issue I’m referring too is overheating and dieing early. Mine died after 1 month or so of light use. Also the lamp side of my box ran really hot, so hot that touching the outside of the wood was almost unbearable. LL did replace my eballast, but after hearing reports similar to mine I just decided to avoid it and go with a core/coil.

The Interference was being caused by the eballast affecting the circuit boards for the LCD panel. This would cause the image on the LCD to blink and go all crazy. There are two solutions to this dilemma if you happen to get the eballast and have interference. First you can cover your circuit boards with aluminum to block the interference, or move the LCD to its own dedicated power line. So basically the LCD and eballast did not function together in the standard LL wiring diagram that uses one power line and splits it between all the components of the projector. (THIS PROBLEM DOES NOT APPEAR WITH ALL LCDs) Using a traditional core/coil works in the standard diagram and requires no extra power cords. BUT the major disadvantage of the core/coil is its weight - thing probably weight 10lbs. If you go the core/coil route you have to specifically match it to the bulb you use. If you use the T15 then you can use my ballast "the Pulse Start M135 Core and Coil Ballast from 1000bulbs.com." It works great and my lamp side of the box runs only warm to the touch.

Haha, i used to keep my pc locked up in a closet to escape noise before fan controllers...God love'm.

Wow, thank you for your kind words, you have made my box very happy I don't remember the name of the plywood I used, but its not regular and not door skin (though the latter would make a very interesting finish). If you go to Home Depots plywood section you will see several kinds ranging from regular pine (yucky) to even oak. I left the wood unfinished, but may seal it off with a rub-in poly based varnish. I used cedar for the frame and then the lightest colored 1/4 plywood they had, maybe birch? It’s about $20 for a big sheet that can be cut down at HD for a modest price. I suggest having them only make one cut - enough to fit in your car if need be - because they splinter the hell out of the wood and you will have to use filler to fix it. Total for cedar and plywood was about $50

To frame or not to frame.
I choose to frame the box and then use plywood on the outside to make the box lighter, but there is a disadvantage to this. 1/4 plywood is thinner then most screws. So when you mount stuff to the sides you have to be very careful not to puncture; I ended up doubling up the wood where I had to mount or pre drilling and then cutting the tips off the screws with metal snips. To get the plywood sides perfectly square with each other I just cut the wood within 1/8 of the frame size, attached the sides and then power sanded the edges down. With a little planning you can avoid showing the butt end of the plywood side. I don't have a table saw so I couldn't make 45 angle cuts on the siding. I glued, counter sunk the nails, and then filled in with wood putty to get the smooth surface. But (seems to be a lot of these), if I did it again I would use screws instead of nails so that when I cut holes for the fans or LCD controls and messed up, I could simply re-cut a new side. If finish is your only concern then you can ditch all this hassle and make the box like the MDF versions, but instead use the nicer, but thicker, plywood.

Eballast Failure.
Well I'm not too privy on the ways of electronics - this project being the first where I wired anything. But this is what I think happened: First those who have had their eballast function normally report that it runs only warm to the touch, mine ran extremely hot. When I read about others having failures usually theirs also ran very very hot. So something goes bad in the eballast and it begins to overheat, overtime this causes the electronics inside to fail. After about a month or so the eballast would turn itself off after 30 or 40min. If you buy the eballast make sure your lamp is fully screwed into the mogul socket, because any space between the mogul contact and lamp could lead to the eballast overloading/overheating and lumen lab won't replace your eballast if its failure is the result of user error. If it still overheats but hasn't started to fail you might be able to get by with a fan mount or something to cool it down. Also, mount it outside your box.

The virtues of Core/coil - and Frustrations
I'll start with the disadvantages since I've been so hard on the eballast Core/coil's are heavy, and seem complex to wire, but if you take your time with the wiring, it isn't that hard. If you are new to wiring I would start with the box first - breaker, switches, fans, and LCD. That way you are familiar with the diagrams and process before attempting the ballast. The Ballast I use is a 400w MH Pulse Start, model: BS/0400PSMT, from 1000bulbs.com and works perfectly with the T15 Ushio sold on LL. These core/coil ballasts look ugly and out of fashion, but have been around far longer then the newer electronic ballasts and have proven themselves. And they are inexpensive compared to the eballast - which is actually cheap compared to eballasts made for fish tanks, and hydroponics equipment (those start at 199 and go up to 399).

HeeeeHAAWWW!......another long winded reply...sorry. I really should become more concise.