[SIMUL8R]

This might help most of you who find it difficult sifting through the entire thread 'LL Projector Lumens Theory'. I've come up with some sort of index the best I could with regards to information that may answer most of your questions and to ease your troubles. I'd like to thank quite a few of you members who provided their help and submitted usefull information during all the experimentation, however, I felt the following are more beneficial for those researching and/or preparing for their antiglare removal. As time goes by I will sift more into the thread and post additional links that appear worthwhile. My highest and deepest regards to all of you nonetheless.
SIMUL8R

Where it all began: http://www.lumenlab....?showtopic=7882
Picture of my famous scratch, yeah, I know it has no importance but hey, it's my thread : http://www.lumenlab....s...7882&st=674
Sister thread of attempted antiglare removal and methods: http://www.lumenlab....s...ic=8283&hl=

Mark™’s explaination on polarized light and the LCD, again Mark™, I’m not worthy!….hehehe: http://www.lumenlab....s...7882&st=135
http://www.lumenlab....s...7882&st=142
http://www.lumenlab....s...7882&st=146

Elken2004™ at work: http://www.lumenlab....s...7882&st=162
At this point this is when Elken2004’™s work gets real interesting and the heart of it all as to how he with the help of Mark™ discovered how polarized film performed on LCD’s.

Elken2004™’s accidental discovery of the tape test: http://www.lumenlab....s...7882&st=222

First projection of LCD mod on DIY Light Fusion Screen ala Elken2004™: http://www.lumenlab....s...7882&st=423
Elken2004™’s comparison pictures of his 17” antiglareless to a 15” antiglared on his LF screen: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1218

3M’s price list for Vikuiti polarizers. Assumed to be the best but pricey: http://www.lumenlab....s...7882&st=694

Tony88's research on glared panels, may be the new panels in our application LL projectors: http://www.lumenlab....s...7882&st=704

The first creation of Extreme Mods: http://www.lumenlab....s...7882&st=762

Removing the entire film antiglare & polarizer if you have to replace it, with pictures: http://www.lumenlab....s...7882&st=806

Types of polarizers to purchase and where, served up by Mark™: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1083

SIMUL8R™'s discovery of the polishing method using Mothers Mag and Aluminum Polish equal to the effect of encapsulating using packaging tape: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1111
Mark™’s Peak polish: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1591
SonicWonder™'s test and results with Peak and where to buy: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=2006
Picture of Mark™’s Rag Method and Peaked polish panel, say that quickly 5 times, I dare ya: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=2090

Elken2004™ invention of the first “Polarized triplet” DIY style: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1182

SIMUL8R™ Paint Stripper Method: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1281
Sanded then Strippered: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1400
SonicWonder™’s contributed research on the Stripper Method using JASCO Premium Paint & Epoxy Stripper: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=2012
Sanding is crucial in the SIMUL8R™ Stripper Method: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=2809
http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=2820

Mark™’s Pro’s and Con’s Sheet: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1322

SonicWonder™’s contribution of Polyvinyl Alcohol (PVA) permeation and degradation chart: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1345

Sample pieces of polarizer treated using Stripper to remove antiglare thrown and unthrown: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1406

Mark™ Rag Method: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1606
Mark™ Rag Method Procedure: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1732
http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1800
Read from this page and several pages after: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=2246
Reinforce the edges with tape after ragging and prior to antiglare lifting: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=3049

Mikau’s antiglare removal disaster: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1895

Picture of fresnel rings showing after mod courtesy of Gregeast: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=1988

Slight loss of transmissiveness if polar is not bonded to LCD: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=2131

SonicWonder™’s water and stripper duration test. Read on this and several pages after, it’s interesting: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=2172
SonicWonder™’s final results after the tests: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=2305

Elken2004™’s polar placement accounts: http://www.lumenlab....s...7882&st=275
Gadgetsmith’s polar placement accounts: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=2218
http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=2245

SIMUL8R™'s TAC removal from rear polarizer (Both polarizers on either side of panel exposed) what can I say, I got Stripper Happy: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=2413

Watch out for non antiglared polarizers 'posers'. They look like they are antiglared free but in reality it's just a removeable protective film: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=2754

Prime’s pictures of different monitors with antiglare diffusive grade differences: http://www.lumenlab....s...882&st=2760

This post has been edited by SIMUL8R: 23 August 2006 - 10:39 PM

[Mikau]

Genius, Sim! But whats missing? Oh yeah. "Mikau's disaster!"

Oh and I would not say mag is equal to packing tape results. It may be true for some lcds but I polished the hell out of my lcd with that stuff and I can barely say it made a difference at all! Maybe it had something to do with the 512N but my point is, I would not make that statement. Peek on the otherhand I haven't tried.

This post has been edited by Mikau: 03 December 2005 - 12:48 AM

[SIMUL8R]

Mikau, on Dec 2 2005, 04:47 PM, said:

Genius, Sim! But whats missing? Oh yeah. "Mikau's disaster!"

Oh and I would not say mag is equal to packing tape results. It may be true for some lcds but I polished the hell out of my lcd with that stuff and I can barely say it made a difference at all! Maybe it had something to do with the 512N but my point is, I would not make that statement. Peek on the otherhand I haven't tried.

Ok Mikau, at first I did have your disaster in there but there were others as well after you but I think we all know the potential risk involved. I'll throw it back in there just for giggles anyways. As for Mother's Mag polish, I believe you used Mother's plastic polish and not the mag version and saw no difference if I'm not mistaken.
sim

This post has been edited by SIMUL8R: 03 December 2005 - 06:45 AM

[Yoder808]

Great Job, that makes things SOOOO much easier!

[Mark]

Wow! (that is the second time in the last 5 minutes I have started a post with that, but I do not use it half heartedly ).

Mark.

[Mikau]

SIMUL8R, on Dec 3 2005, 12:53 AM, said:

Ok Mikau, at first I did have your disaster in there but there were others as well after you but I think we all know the potential risk involved. I'll throw it back in there just for giggle anyways. As for Mother's Mag polish, I believe you used Mother's plastic plastic polish and not the mag version and saw no difference if I'm not mistaken.
sim

Yes and no. First I bought the plastic polish by mistake, then I found out its supposed to be the mag and alluminum polish. So I bought that and it didn't work either.

This post has been edited by Mikau: 03 December 2005 - 05:02 AM

[SIMUL8R]

BoomerBrian, on Dec 2 2005, 10:09 PM, said:

You da man sim! Thanks for the effort. I am going to start pj 2 and will have my cmv529 on the operating table. This index will be great to find what I need to reread before surgery.

Glad it will be of help, wish you the best of luck BB.
sim

[elken2004]

SIM..... brilliant work...


I am wowed,, hehehheh

sorry have been extremely busy here,, but the saga still continues will do posts soon,,, I still quickly keep up reading,,,,,

but had to say, that you have done well doing this,, because I was seeing the proper way of doing and understanding getting lost on mega thread,,, Hats off to you....

[SIMUL8R]

elken2004, on Dec 3 2005, 12:40 AM, said:

SIM..... brilliant work...
I am wowed,, hehehheh

sorry have been extremely busy here,, but the saga still continues will do posts soon,,, I still quickly keep up reading,,,,,

but had to say, that you have done well doing this,, because I was seeing the proper way of doing and understanding getting lost on mega thread,,, Hats off to you....

Aim to please Master elkennobie, aim to please.
sim

[SIMUL8R]

Ok Mikau, your on the index...hehehe
sim

[Danger_Dan]

THANK YOU thank you thank you.

I've found it nearly impossible to wade through the individual posts. Thanks for distilling down the main points.

Tom

[maxer]

hi!

i was thinking about a strange idea!!!

we all know the saok water AG removal method...

i think that what principally the water does is to cool the glue under the AG so it can restrict itself and pulling at the same time the AG sheet.So if temperature is the KEYWORD is this process could it be that by putting the LCD in the fridge for a determined amount of time and temperature (of course not under 0'C) the process could be easier,because in this way we can control the temperature too.Should know what kind of glue is used to attach the AG sheet to Polarizer and study its temperature properties.I'm wondering (always if this is true) what could be the neccesary temperature.In this way we can avoid water finishing in polarizer sheet and/or electronics and the process could be something automatic with time and temp well know (without maybes).

regards

maXer

[dimitrisbizakis]

maxer, on May 27 2006, 10:47 AM, said:

i think that what principally the water does is to cool the glue under the AG

I think that whene someone said that warmer water is better is exaxtly the oposide side!
The water moistorizes the glue so it is easyer to pill.
I think that a good idea is to use the hair dryer to kinda get a LITLE ONLY A LITLE hot the water that is on the lcd.
Actualy i'm trying it wright now.
Hope i dont do something stupid...where the hell i'm gonna find another 15" lcd at 80€.

ANTIGLARE ON A NEC 1535VA Succesfull with plain water and paper.

Regards Dimitris.

This post has been edited by dimitrisbizakis: 21 April 2007 - 08:51 PM

[peterson35]

SIMUL8R, on Dec 2 2005, 11:35 PM, said:

This might help most of you who find it difficult sifting through the entire thread 'LL Projector Lumens Theory'. I've come up with some sort of index the best I could with regards to information that may answer most of your questions and to ease your troubles. I'd like to thank quite a few of you members who provided their help and submitted usefull information during all the experimentation, however, I felt the following are more beneficial for those researching and/or preparing for their antiglare removal. As time goes by I will sift more into the thread and post additional links that appear worthwhile. My highest and deepest regards to all of you nonetheless.
SIMUL8R

I had seen a product named "Notebook / LCD privacy filters"

Notebook / LCD privacy filters keeps confidential and private information private. Also fits a 15 inch LCD display. Utilizes 3M's patented microlouver technology so only persons directly in front of the monitor can see the image on screen, passersby see only a blank, dark screen. Unique attachment system, stays in place even when notebook computer is closed.

That means it doesnt allow the diffracted light away and the light coming thro' the filter is omni directuinal. So by adding such filter over antiglare coating will solve the problem caused by antiglare coating in DIY LCD projectors?

It is just my idea came when I saw the product information.

[coyote483]

WOOO HOOO!!! Successfull AG removal from Samsung 150MP using water soak!!! Did not use warm water. Used paper towel cut to presice dimentions. It wanted to stretch a lot once it was wet and didn't lay completely flat. Spent about 30 minutes working all the air bubbles out. I also layed a piece of plastic wrap over the panel to prevent evaporation. I never had to reaply water. Took about 7 hours before a corner easily lifted with small needle. Nearly came off in one piece. Two small sections allong the edge remained, but came off with a little coaxing. No damage at all!!! Next step, build my enclosure.


Mountaindrifter

[Bonovox]

Hi everyone!!

I have a question directed to Sim, Elken, Mark, Jon, or Sonic - but anyone is free to comment or give an answer. My question is:

Do we know if AG removal damages the polar in the longrun or not??

Before you post links and tell me to read through the thread, let me say I already have. I've read through the Anti-Glare story and I have read through MANY anti-glare removal threads. I have seen that people seem to have trouble removing the AG from the 10.6 LCDs. I have read about Paint Stipper VS Rag Soak VS Mother's Mag Polish.

I guess I'd like to hear from those who have had their projectors running without AG for a year or so and see if they are seeing problems like "Graining" or other polar damage.

I'd like to hear from the Guru's (SIMUL8R, Elken2004, Mark, SonicWonder, Jonjandran, Supraguy, Puni5her, and many others I can't think of) to see if there is a definitive answer. Is Stripper safer than water? Water safer than Stripper? Is Mother's Polish the best?

I know there are SOOOOooo many posts about this already but the problem is that it just seems to go back and forth. So I guess my main question is -

If I want to keep this LCD running in this projector for at least a year is it OK to strip the AG, or should I just leave it on, and if it's OK which method is the safest?

Thank you.

Bonovox

[Hobbyer]

I have had my DIY Projector in use for a year with AG removed from day one. No problems with it at all. I really don't think it would deteriorate the polarizer any from the looks of my polarizer sheet I ordered to put on my second projector. I ran into the problem of removing the polar film along with the AG layer on my second lcd panel, so I just peeled everything and hung a new one in front of the lcd and it works great. After all the statements of fearing this happening to those who try, I have learned it is no big deal and an easy fix. Next time I will plan on full removal and replacement, and if I don't have a problem then that is even better. But , the end result is worth it. My suggestion to those starting out and not sure what to expect, would be to get a hold of one or more bad panels and peel them to see how it goes. A replacement sheet of polarizer costs about $60, and there is enough to do two lcd panels. So if it did degrade, which I seriously doubt, then the cost is minimal to replace it. I read alot about polar replacement and my results showed excellent picture quality with great color reproduction. Just as good as the original, as far as I'm concerned. Hope this helps with your questions. Good luck!

This post has been edited by Hobbyer: 06 May 2008 - 07:20 PM

[Bonovox]

Hobbyer, on May 6 2008, 01:18 PM, said:

I have had my DIY Projector in use for a year with AG removed from day one. No problems with it at all. I really don't think it would deteriorate the polarizer any from the looks of my polarizer sheet I ordered to put on my second projector. I ran into the problem of removing the polar film along with the AG layer on my second lcd panel, so I just peeled everything and hung a new one in front of the lcd and it works great. After all the statements of fearing this happening to those who try, I have learned it is no big deal and an easy fix. Next time I will plan on full removal and replacement, and if I don't have a problem then that is even better. But , the end result is worth it. My suggestion to those starting out and not sure what to expect, would be to get a hold of one or more bad panels and peel them to see how it goes. A replacement sheet of polarizer costs about $60, and there is enough to do two lcd panels. So if it did degrade, which I seriously doubt, then the cost is minimal to replace it. I read alot about polar replacement and my results showed excellent picture quality with great color reproduction. Just as good as the original, as far as I'm concerned. Hope this helps with your questions. Good luck!

Thanks Hobbyer. That did help. The fact that you've had yours w/o AG for a year and still no problems with the polar is definatly reasuring.

One quick question - It sounds like you had one successful strip and one with problems. Which method would you say has a higher success rate?

I think I'm about to soak my LCD. Any other comments?

[jonjandran]

I had my 15.4" over a year with no polar damage after AG removal.

I have read posts from at least 3 members who said they got graining and/or red spots on theirs after a few months.

This leads me to believe that if you water soak you take a bigger risks on loosening the adhesive behind the polar and after time this might allow for graining because the polar will start to come up.

Which would lead me to believe paint stripper might be better in the long run.

[SIMUL8R]

Bonovox, on May 6 2008, 10:03 AM, said:

I know there are SOOOOooo many posts about this already but the problem is that it just seems to go back and forth. So I guess my main question is -

If I want to keep this LCD running in this projector for at least a year is it OK to strip the AG, or should I just leave it on, and if it's OK which method is the safest?

Thank you.

Bonovox

Personally Bonovox, I'd leave the antiglare on the panel and just polish it instead. There are panels that were made as gloss panels but the only ones I've experienced labled as gloss had a non-antiglared polar film placed atop a antiglared polar film...that's 2 layers of different polar on the front of the panel .

I've stripped several panels of it's antiglare in my time as a builder and can only tell you that all developed graining one way or another. It is speculated that if and when water permeats through the polar and touches the adhesives under it that holds it's place with the other sandwiching clear layer called TAC then graining could, AGAIN..COULD, occur. This is the biggest risk when exposing raw polar especially when placing it front of a high heat source like a 400 MH lamp. Even if it doesn't occur immediately over time the raw polar strands will and may begin to loose it's hold with each other as well as from the clear layer below it when heat and cold is introduced. Much like a wood contracting and expanding it begins to warp and crack. The antiglare layer protects from this occuring.

I will say this though, do not apply any moisture to the raw polar when and during the panel is hot while in front of a heat source such as your lamp. The expanding and contracting process will no doubtedly be sped up.

[SIMUL8R]

jonjandran, on May 6 2008, 03:04 PM, said:

Which would lead me to believe paint stripper might be better in the long run.

Although it was a method I discovered (don't know what the HELL I was thinking ) it has a bigger risk because it will also eat up the ffc ribbons if your not carefull. Not to mention there is the process of lightly sanding the antiglare first and then using a plastic spatula to scrape off the tough antiglare. I'll have to admit that Mark's water soak method is less then the paint stripper method *head hung WAY low*. BTW, my first panel done stripper fashion 'grained' thereafter but not immediately. I might have sped the process when I cleaned the raw polar while it was quite warm from the light source with a damp rag.

[Hobbyer]

I only tried the water soak method on my panels. One worked, and the other pulled the polar film with it. I'm not sure why as I used lcd's that were known to be easy AG removal. On another note, I cracked a 17" dell panel and got another of the same model. When I opened up the second one, it was not the same as the first one. the lcd was totally different, but had the same wire harness plug-ins on it. This is probably why some will come off while others have a problem. They may be the same monitor, but the lcd's can be different inside them.

[GadgetSmith]

Another option is to contact member crazychen. he is offering stripped panels, although i'm not sure if he's got the 10.6" panel or not... perhaps he would trade, or you could send him the panel to have the polarizers removed... no harm in asking if you think it might be an option for you.

I've also had a few 15.4" wuxga panels (2 sharp, 1 toshiba) w/ AG removed... never any trouble with them... anywhere from 3+ months to 2+ years...

[Durachko]

I suppose I'll add that my experiences with panel stripping haven't yet resulted in graining and I used water soaking exclusively. As always YMMV.

In addition - GS or anyone - is crazychen stripping the panels or obtaining them stripped? Just curious and too lazy to search.