N6 - horrible image quality!, pictures included Options

[Chad N.]

Warning: DO NOT buy a Viewsonic Nextvision N6. I am making this post to save others from wasting their money on this product.

I needed something to convert component to VGA so I bought a N6. To say the least I am disgusted with the horrible image quality of this product. Here is what it does:

1. In any (Xbox) game with 480P signals fed in, there is unacceptable ghosting. This is most noticeable on things such as crosshairs and letters. I notice little to no ghosting with 720P or 1080i signals. I was able to completely eliminate 480P ghosting by turning the saturation of the N6 all the way down to 0 (resulting in a greyscale image).
2. In 480i only (with component input), the contrast is extremely low. No amount of changing the settings produces an acceptable picture.
3. Using component input, the color red is processed horribly. It seems as if the N6 is sometimes applying a cartoon-like filter to the color red. Some images appear normal, while others are much worse. Sometimes a slight outline appears around a red object, while other times a sharp contrast between red and another color appears horribly pixelized. Once again, when the saturation is turned to 0, the problem is eliminated.
4. 720P is slightly blurry.
5. 1080i flickers.
6. With any input (composite, component) and under any application (game or DVD movie) there is motion blurriness. The image looks clear until you move in a game, or pan around in a DVD. Then everything moving is extremely blurry. This is most noticeable when turning from side to side in a 1st person shooter game.
7. The N6 deinterlaces horribly. In movies horizontal lines are very noticeable around edges of moving objects, characters.

I have tested the N6 extensively with multiple setups (see below). At first, I thought my N6 was defective, so I did a warranty exchange through Viewsonic. After going through 4 of these, all with the same problem, Viewsonic finally admitted the N6 doesn't process component to VGA without issues, and my expectations were too high. Yes, my expectations for image quality were high!......I am using component input to get a 480P picture. If I wanted bad quality I would stick with composite.
I realize the N6 is a cheap way to get component to VGA, and other units that produce a better picture are far more expensive, but at any price these image quality issues are completely unacceptable.

My test setup:
To rule out any other devices that may be causing problems, I tested the N6 using 3 different Xboxes, 2 different official Microsoft high definition component cables, and 2 different monitors. The 1st monitor was an Envision EN775e 17" CRT. The second was a CMV 520D 15" LCD (16ms response time). Both monitors were tested in their native resolution. The N6 problems listed above did not change when different setups were used. I also played with the N6 settings extensively to rule out that as well. The N6 was reset using the mute/arrows method. I then substituted a transcoder in for the N6 with the above setups. The resulting picture was perfect.
The same Xbox(s) were connected directly to both a 27" (480i) and big-screen (480P, 720P, 1080i) TVs with the same component cables, with no N6 in the setup. No problems resulted.

And now for the pictures: click the thumbnail for a larger view
Ignore the bluryness; the camera I borrowed didn't take good pictures, and bluryness isn't the issue in these pics.

All pics are taken from an Xbox with 480P except for the image specified as 480i.


Notice ghosting on the letters


Notice the ghosting inside the circled areas.


This is the original jpg.... what it should look like


This is as good as the contrast gets in 480i through component

This post has been edited by Chad N.: Sep 1 2005, 11:31 AM

[Chad N.]

More pics:



Bad ghosting left of the "R"


Notice the outline around the tank


Here is a screenshot of the same game from a web page.....how the image should look


Notice the man's sleeve and the edge of his shirt to your right. This is the bad red processing I talked about. It looks even worse in person.


This is an shot using a transcoder in place of the N6. Notice the clean edges
(In case anyone was wondering this is an 8 foot alligator gar someone caught in Mississippi).

This post has been edited by Chad N.: Sep 1 2005, 02:48 AM

[blake]

Well I think I might just buy an HTPC come to think of it....

This post has been edited by blake: Sep 2 2005, 10:15 AM

[movieman317]

can i get some more input from othe members on the n6 and pictures please thankxs

[jmrguy]

I haven't heard anything good about the N6.

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6256

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7481

[Pyrometman]

I just purchased the N6 also so I could watch everything over component. I have Xbox, progressive scan DVD, and will soon have HD cable. I use an auto-sensing component video/audio switch before the component signal goes to the N6.

I have noticed the same affects with "reds". It pretty annoying and you have to turn the contrast down a bit to compensate. I haven't really notice the ghosting as much.

This is going to have to get me by for the time being however. I'll have to just save for something better in the future. I looks like you just have to spend good money to get a better scaler.

Look at these: www.dvdo.com

[phutton]

Wow! This thread makes me feel good I chose the Avermedia.

[scubasteve2365]

Wow! This thread makes me feel good I chose the Avermedia.

Then I will be the one to put the needle in your bubble.

I have the Avermedia, used it for about 1 month after I finished my first projector.

Hooked a laptop up for the hell of it, and at the point the avermedia has never gotten power again.

While it scales low res 480i and below sources much much better than the N6.(doesnt do progressive) It still looks quite poor compared to a PC.

I cant plug this enough, there is no SUBSTITUTE for a HTPC. I dont think our PJ's even look as good as the entry level commercials in resolution with these boxes. a PC should be the only way a Lumen-laber should go.

EDIT***

I just realized I sort of sounded like an ass in this post ... wasnt trying to be. Just trying to spread the info.

-Scuba-

This post has been edited by scubasteve2365: Sep 3 2005, 04:52 AM

[Cold Steel]

Something you need to look at is the quality of your cables to hook up your N6. I personally don't have one but high quality cables do make a
difference especially if going a long distance.

[Chad N.]

Something you need to look at is the quality of your cables to hook up your N6. I personally don't have one but high quality cables do make a
difference especially if going  a long distance.

Yes, high quality cables do make a difference to an extent. The image quality problems I and others have had are not due to poor cables though. In my post I explained my test setup. Official Microsoft component cables were used. They are very high quality, and are the recommended cables in the Xbox community.

[arris138]

I'm using an N6 and although i'm sure that I could get a better image out of an HTPC, i'm completely satisfied with the N6, and don't have hardly any of the problems you're coming across. I'm getting better images through my pj than you're showing on your monitor there. The ease of use in a family situation for me far outweighs the image gain I'll get from a HTPC.

I'll post up some xbox shots soon for comparison.

I'm not saying that it's the best thing out there, but I think you may have a bad box or something going on. I'd definately recommend the N6 for anyone that's in need of an easy to use alternative to having to run an HTPC in the living room.

[Smalls]

I second that. My N6 is great! Havent had any problems.

[Chad N.]

I'm using an N6 and although i'm sure that I could get a better image out of an HTPC, i'm completely satisfied with the N6, and don't have hardly any of the problems you're coming across.  I'm getting better images through my pj than you're showing on your monitor there.  The ease of use in a family situation for me far outweighs the image gain I'll get from a HTPC.

I'll post up some xbox shots soon for comparison.

I'm not saying that it's the best thing out there, but I think you may have a bad box or something going on.  I'd definately recommend the N6 for anyone that's in need of an easy to use alternative to having to run an HTPC in the living room.

I went through 4 N6s all with the same problems. They are not broken, just poorly designed. Look closely, you will notice the problems.

Some people have more of an eye for image quality, while others are more forgiving. If you are satisified, then I am glad....you got your money's worth. Its just that when I choose component over composite or s-video, I expect the image quality to be perfect. If you used composite or S-video, you won't get half the problems I listed, but then again, you won't have a progressive scan picture either.

If you were to compare an N6 and a transcoder side by side, the difference would be staggering. Besides, a transcoder is much cheaper.

[arris138]

I admit that it's not the top of the line in image quality, I just wanted to point out that it's not 'horrible' image quality, and people shouldn't just not buy one on principal. If they're as discerning as you are with image quality, it's definitely not for them, but I'd recommend one for its ease of use and wife acceptance factor any day.

[Mikau]

I haven't had any issues with ghosting on my N6 with my Xbox. Though I'm not using componants so I guess I don't have progressive scan going. I hope that your lcd has a 16 ms refresh rate, cause if its 25ms its most likely the lcd, not the N6.

[brainchild]

Never had the problems you've had. The N6 always did component very well for me, it was its deinterlacing that annoyed me. But hey, that was just crappy lo rez stuff anyway.

[scoodidabop]

I too hate the N6.


HUGE!!! problem with reds....

Just waiting for the xbox360 with vga out to fix all my problems.

[arizonavideo]

You can't just use just one type of interconect cabels they all are made in china any more. I have found on some of them the gold plated ends had a coating that had to be removed with sandpaper! beleave it or not Raido shack has some good cables at a ripoff price. If you use two ot three cables and get the same results then I might start to thing that the N6 is poop.

[Chad N.]

You can't just use just one type of interconect cabels they all are made in china any more. I have found on some of them the gold plated ends had a coating that had to be removed with sandpaper! beleave it or not Raido shack has some good cables at a ripoff price. If you use two ot three cables and get the same results then I might start to thing that the N6 is poop.

My tests were done with 2 sets of official Microsoft component cables. According to the Xbox community, these are among THE highest quality cables you can buy.

I used the exact same cables with my transcoder....perfect image. Also, most of these problems could not be attributed to bad cables even if you had bad cables. Trust me, I've looked into it. I am 100%, absolutely, positively, beyond any shadow of a doubt sure it is the poor design of the N6.

This post has been edited by Chad N.: Nov 8 2005, 04:14 AM

[Shrivel]

Here's my take on the whole N6 quality issue:

I've lived with my projector and N6 for the past 12 months. Yes, I have noticed the color bleeding problems, particularly on reds, that others have. Yes, the image quality is not as good as it could be, especially with HD sources. But you also get what you pay for. There are NO OTHER devices that will scale HD input at anywhere near the price of an N6. Check the prices of even low-end video scalers capable of high def scaling - we're talking a minimum of 500-600 dollars.

I agree that if you are only interested in display of DVDs or NTSC video, then you should look at other devices or a HTPC, but if you have even the slightest desire to do any high-def watching then you'll have to spend a ton more to get better picture quality.

I should also note that I have NEVER seen the even the slightest hint of interlace artifacts or ghosting from my seating position with my N6, and I use my PJ as my main display, for TV, DVDs and video games.

[mikelish]

i wish i could use a transcoder with another box to format the letterbox format for 16:9 sources into 1280x1024 . my monitor doesnt do 1280x720

[darbronnoco]

I love mine... nuf said

[nemesismajor]

the n6 rocks could be cheaper though

[Litherish]

I hate to break it to you Chad, but the Microsoft Component cables are NOT accepted in the Xbox community, they actually recommend using cheap generic ones, or the Monster cables. That might be part of your problem, looks like you did a nice exstensive study on the N6 though, not sure why...lol....you could have just said N6 sucks and has bad ghosting and red color issues.

[foamcows]

my n6 works great, i only use it for hdtv and my laptop. If you try to use it for regular cable it does a crappy de interlacing job, esp on fast movies like the matrix. I say unless you only want to use it for hdtv and to hook a laptop up it isnt that good. If you use it only for the component in then its fine for our projectors. I think people ask alot out of a diy projector sometimes.

This post has been edited by foamcows: Jan 11 2006, 04:31 AM