3D technology, in Video games? Options

[Mikau]

You know those movies where you put on those weird glasses and everything turns to 3D? Why can't they make some video games that are made like that?

If not, then what about holographic, or virtual reality units? Whats taking them so long?

TV's are fine for movies, but being able to judge depth in video games could take them to a whole new level.

[steve_TO]

actually this has been going on for a while now, nvidia has developed stereoscopic 3D drivers available for d/l from their site. You can either view the "3D" games with anaglyph, or LCD shutter glasses (ie www.edimentional.com). they are the only company that to my knowledge supports LCD displays.

hope that helped


BTW, There is already another post about this topic :

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3195&hl=

[manicmarauder]

Meh.

Thankfully the shutter glasses approach isn't used in movies. My biggest issue with it is the refresh rate is so low I develop a monster headache when trying to use it. Mind you, i'm one of those people who can watch the screen shimmer/flicker at 60H and get headaches from it as well. *sigh*

I too wish they would use the other style tech (reed/blue filtered glasses) to do some games, as that would be exelent and doesn't seam to bother my eyes for whatever reason

For now though, you can get some 3D viewing on your PJ if you play the Spy Kids 3D movie on it. I haven't built mine yet, but have watched it on a big screen TV and it's pretty cool.

EDIT - changed sterioscopic to shutter glasses. Heh, s'what i get for posting when i should be sleeping. I should also note that I havn't tried these things for about 3-4 years. Hopefully they've imporoved a bit since then, but i'm still scared to try them.

[Mikau]

Hmm...I think you get a head ach cause the focus range is too close. Maybe making something huge will work.

[Mikau]

Yeah I heard the draw backs were dissorientation and it caused bad head aches. Well if its dissorienting I wouldn't know the differance, but the head aches are a problem. I think they just need to make something a bit farther away. maybe somehow make it look farther away.

I don't know, I just hope it becomes a reality soon.

[Mikau]

Well I've been looking at the new ED glasses. Pretty cool. Reviews say that while eyestrain occurs, it goes away with practice.

[wakeav8b]

I looked into this awhile ago. You can use the regular polarized glasses, but you need to use two projectors side by side with polorizers over the lenses. You also need hardware or software to manilpulate the images into 3d. Almost all games nowadays will work with a 3d system as they are actually created in 3d. Movies on the other hand are much more difficult as they were not created in 3d.

[RotorDemon]

LCD shutter glasses (ie www.edimentional.com). they are the only company that to my knowledge supports LCD displays.

I got a set of eDimensional glasses. and its REAL iffy on working. it interlaces the screen which makes it 1/2 as bright + screen size is too big for the separation.

So.. it KINDA works, but its not worth it.

eDimensional Shutter Glasses + CRT =

[ajeromin]

Also keep in mind that many games are already pushing the CPU to its limit (especially on consoles), so trying to push it to render two simultaneous camera views at the same time for every frame would result in slow down, or watered down looking games for now. With next gen consoles... who knows?

[magic_mat123]

what about the Elsa Revelator glasses?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...ssPageName=WDVW


What a joke! LOL (but does it work?)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...8166424223&rd=1

http://www.icetec-uk.com/icetec/

I saw one of these things a whill ago for £4.99 with projector plans VR plans and how to build a lcd (YES, thats right a LCD). I wrote to him and asked him if the VR device was a fresnel and stuff about the lcd and he wrote back.


Hi. For the bonus LCD and VR Plans mentioned in the auction, check out the below:
LCD Plans and VR plans: http://www.godrules.net/LCD.htm
VR Device Plans: Basically, you can use these lenses to make this almost real like gaming experience. OK, try this really quick: Load your favorite game on your computer. Take one of the lenses I sent you and hold it about 4 inches from your monitor with the rib side facing the screen. Now, put your head pretty close to the lens and look through. Its really big, but better yet, when you are playing the game, you almost feel like you are a part of it(like a VR world). Once you build the box around the lens(really easy), its even better!

Here is how you can make a device for this use of the lens:

* http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/J...der/fresnel.htm
* http://www.rickleephoto.com/rlcoll.htm
* http://www.rickleephoto.com/mosaicfresnel.htm <--------- Similar, but more advanced usage(Boeing adv flight simulation).

Check it out. If you are a gamer, you will LOVE IT!!

In an email before he also mentioned he watched a few films with the vr device !!! LOL

AND LOOK 3D TV converter!!!!!
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/BLU-nitrox/Virtua...aderLinksQQtZkm

3d Glasses for LCDs!!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...uprebrand=false

LOL
http://www.icetec-uk.com/icetec/immersive_...sses_svga3d.htm

[BuffTech]

LCD shutter glasses (ie www.edimentional.com). they are the only company that to my knowledge supports LCD displays.

I got a set of eDimensional glasses. and its REAL iffy on working. it interlaces the screen which makes it 1/2 as bright + screen size is too big for the separation.

So.. it KINDA works, but its not worth it.

eDimensional Shutter Glasses + CRT =

I was thinking of getting these edimensional 3D glasses for my lcd but can't find to much info on results using an lcd. Would you elaborate some RotorDemon? They kinda work? I was thinking of using them for 3D modeling to create a more accurate 3d model since it dosen't involve alot of movement i thought they would be good for that. Are they too blurry or something?

[JroX]

hello all, this is my first post, something urged me to throw my two cents in here as i am an avid fan of anything 3d. for those of you interested, the stereoscopic drivers available from nvidia work with most any type of 3d glasses setup, provided you have the necessary hardware to operate on.

i use these shutterglasses you guys were discussing on all my games. out of the 40 or so titles i have, only about 2 or 3 do not work in stereo 3d. for the most part any game which uses direct3d or opengl for rendering (99% of games), will work in 3d.

the drivers work basically by taking the 3d information from your game scene, and reprocessing it into 2 seperate perspectives, one for each eye. the image appears to be doubled at first glance, yet you will notice a very small difference in perspective, much in the same way as when you hold and object close to your face and then close one eye at a time and focus on it. the object seems further to the left or right depending on which eye you focus from. (and notice that the closer the object is to your face, the more separation there is when you switch between eyes.) this is whats known as binocular disparity, it enables us to percieve depth the way we do. each eye sends its own signal to the brain from a slightly different angle, and the brain processes this information to tell us how close or far away objects are.

now, when the drivers work their magic, they redraw these two different angles on your screen at once, based on whatever 2d information it gets from the game. the drivers separate the image according to its distance from you, just as in real life, the closer, the more separation, as mentioned above.

the glasses job is to now present these two different angles as one to your brain, in turn fooling your perception of what you are seeing, making you think there is depth and spaciousness in the game. they do this by refreshing in sync with your monitors refresh rate. you cant see it really unless you have a low refresh rate, but the two different images actually alternate from right to left. this is called page flipping. if you are running at 60HZ refresh the driver cuts this in half to draw each side 30 times per second. this is where you get lots of 'flickering' of the image, very unpleasant as someone stated above. but if you have a monitor capable of say 120HZ or more, the the flickering really becomes a non issue. as the monitor flips the image back and forth, the glasses shutter accordingly, letting only one eye see its own image at any time. this all happens so quickly that your eyes dont notice and your brain blends it all into one 3d environment.

this is only one setup though, there are others also that i wont get into quite as in depth. now be aware however that this technology is dependant upon a good refresh rate as well as many other things. lcd video panels at this time are just not capable of attaining as high of refreshes as a crt, just the way it is (for now). if you do not have a monitor capable of at least 120 hz refresh rate on a resolution of 640x480 or more, these glasses will not be so impressive. but of course you could try them and get a taste of whats possible and upgrade or change setups later.

secondly stereoscopic computer imaging, as someone pointed out in an above post, requires MASSIVE amounts of compilcated algorithm calculations and graphics rendering. therefore a high end pc is required to get decent performance from most of todays graphics intensive games. basic rule of thumb when it comes to 3d.. your pc's horsepower, no matter how big and bad, will effectively be halved when it comes time to play in stereo. if you already have mediocre performance on doom 3 for instance, you will likely have very poor performance in 3d. keep in mind your precious little transistors are now working twice as hard to display what was once one image as two!! it takes a smokin rig to play in stereo!!

my 3d gaming rig:

p4 2.8Ghz 800 FSB, HT enabled
1 GB PC3200 dual channel ram
geforce 6800 non ultra, overclocked to ultra specs, pipelines unlocked.
19" viewsonic a91f crt display.

certainly not the fastest system, but i get exceptional performance in all games in 3d.

also, another very important thing i almost forgot: these drivers from were designed by nvidia, for nvidia cards only. sorry guys but if you have and ati based gpu, your really just not supported for this. edimensional, the company distributing these glasses claim to have support for ati, yet the support is highly lack-luster and the overall game compatibility and 3d quality just do not compare to nvidias driver, at all.

when it comes to 3d projection however, its a slightly different setup usually. in theory you could use regular shutter glasses with a projector, only i could imagine there would be considerable flickering issues. the optimal setup for projection would involve two identical projectors - each hooked up to one of the two outputs from a dual head card, with polarizing sheets over the throw lenses. (however seeing as though we use lcd panels for our projections, the images are already polarized from the lcd itself as light passes through it, which would slightly change the setup on hardware, but could still be done.) once the image is properly separated for each eye, you would only need a lightweight pair of polarized glasses and screen. this is useful for when you have more than one person trying to see the 3d.

and about '3d tv' or '3d from 2d' conversion kits.. they are bogus, do not waste your time. it is impossible to get 3d information from any 2d source such as movies or pictures. there are setups that exist which are able to produce a 'pseudo-3d' effect, but it is not true stereoscopy and often unimpressive. in order for any movie to be viewed in 3d, it must be filmed in 3d. the only reason computers can convert games is because the graphics are true 3d informations, it just takes a little post processing to render it accordingly. to do this from a 2d filmed movie or presentation is impossible, the needed information just isnt there.

anyway, hope theres some info ive provided here somebody can learn from or use. if theres anyone interested on this forum with the proper hardware to use the 3d driver, i highly recommend you check this out. im willing to lend a hand to help if anyone needs it. i got my 3d glasses in mid 2002 and i have never played a game since without them, im absoulutley serious about that too. i will never go back to playing in 2d again. its just so flat and boring now that ive been exposed to this. imagine playing doom3 and feeling like your actually standing in that dark corridor with your trusty shotgun and imps are hurling fireballs at you that seem to really jump out of the monitor!!

and of course i do want to take this from my 19 inch crt monitor a HUGE projected screen. im currently collecting parts for my first projector, my ultimate goal is two run two projectors with a polarized setup for jaw dropping life size images jumping out of a 10 foot screen!!!

-whoa, did i really type all that?? whata geek!!

for more info, check out:

http://www.stereo3d.com and http://www.stereovision.net

[daedalus]

Hi,

I posted a few questions about 3d projector systems in the intelligent video projector design forum before finding this thread. If your interested in 3d displays you should check it out, as the technique is way cooler than shutter glasses, plus its completely passive, so you dont need to use wired glasses. theoretically you can even support multiple users with their own view points, so each of you gets your own view of the scene. The main downside being that it requires some special filters which i have been unable to source, that said my area is vr and not optics.

[Mikau]

I was just wondering. 3d display converters use sophisticated mathematical algorthims (my guess using projection geometry formula's) to rotate the image slightly to the left and right for both eyes. Could this theoretically be done optically? I'm not thinking of doing it myself I mean just for conversation. It would probably still need a modification to the display system but I wonder what could be done with this method. For instance, if you had onscreen, a widescreen or letterbox image with a split screen, each the same image rotated at an angle slightly. And an optical helmet to restrict vision of each eye to one side of the screen. Color coding or whatever.

Do you think it could be done?

[JAZZKOOL_2005]

3D LCD Display Monitor Without the Need For Special Glasses.

http://www.sharpsystems.com/products/lcd_m...inch/ll-151-3d/

I Thinks this will work on our DIY Projector

[Mikau]

Doubt it, but maybe. I think the way that works is it has special fresnels behind the lcd. Don't know for sure though. I've heard of those before.

$1500 for a 15 inch lcd. Ouch.

This post has been edited by Mikau: Jun 2 2005, 08:41 PM

[JAZZKOOL_2005]

Playing 3D Games on 100+ inch Screen at home without 3D Glasses..... PRICELESS....

[Mikau]

Better get a mastercard!

[Register NowGuest_*]

nintendo wii is rumored to use 3d holographics with this technology http://store.sharpsystems.com/product.asp?sku=2555920

[RBRat3]

Well my best theater experience twards 3d would be the IMAX dome how it covers your periphels of vision to imerse you into the move now thats some great stuff. I was thinking of building a small IMAX dome but ive only came up with crapy simuliations with 3Ds MAX but heres my EXAMPE (image courtisy of me LOL)

[krystar]

Well my best theater experience twards 3d would be the IMAX dome how it covers your periphels of vision to imerse you into the move now thats some great stuff. I was thinking of building a small IMAX dome but ive only came up with crapy simuliations with 3Ds MAX but heres my EXAMPE (image courtisy of me LOL)

wouldn't quite work. u'd need multiple projectors (which is what they do) and u'd need special optics because the projection screen is curved. u'd have all sorts of focus and image issues w/o designing for the curved dome surface.

[RBRat3]

nope i did alittle reserch they only use one projector in one case theres an i max theater in france that uses 2 projectors the reason is is that there is 2 screens one in the front and one underneath the seats which the floor is made out of glass it just adds more to the expierience. but yes i would need some type of lense OR i could convert the video to an inverted sphere that way the picture dosent look like its bubbled out but there is an issue going that route the outer part of the sphere is going to be out of foucus due to being closer to the projector.


Just to educate you alittle on an Imax theater


1. orty-five hundred times larger than an average TV screen, IMAX and IMAX 3D giant flat screens soar up to eight stories high and have a slight curvature that extends beyond the field of geometric recognition. Because these screens fill your peripheral vision, you feel like you’re right in the action. IMAX 3D screens are painted silver to maximize the amount of light reflected back to the audience.



2. IMAX uses 15-perforation, 70mm film to create images of incredible sharpness. The 15/70 frame is 10 times larger than the 35mm used in regular theatres. This makes it the largest commercial film ever invented. Would you believe, IMAX large format film is so strong it could be used to tow your car?


This post has been edited by RBRat3: Jul 23 2006, 07:05 AM

[relieve3d]

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This post has been edited by relieve3d: Nov 22 2006, 04:11 PM

[relieve3d]

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