3d glasses with projector!!!!, WOOOOAHHH!! Options

[r3n0]

DUDE, i finished my projector and decided to give my 3d glasses a shot and HOLY CRAP, its like ur really there!!!!!! Sorry, i didnt actually do that, it was all a lie, but do u think it would work? When i build one ill try.

[pvfjr]

Sure, if you had a 3D version of something.

[IDDQD]

Ive got stereoscopic vision on my graphics card, but the LCD monitors dont support a high enough resolution, to make for decent viewing, hurts your eyes after a while. 100Hz is reccomended as a minimum.

[jerseyjohn]

You could download the 3D graphic images of the Spirit and Opportunity rovers on Mars. Talk about being there.
John

[IDDQD]

images

Meh

[herecomethebugs]

If you have a nvidia card check this out:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d_stereo.html

I've tried it on my monitor (building my projector) with anaglyphic glasses. It works pretty good, but your eyes get tired fairly quick. It works with any Direct3D or OpenGL game.

Paper anaglyphic glasses are pretty cheap. If you google around a bit you can find them for less than $1 + shipping.

Not sure if there is something like that for ATI cards... I haven't looked into it.

Also, check this out: http://www.planetquake.com/stereoquake/ It's not anaglyphic, but it's still kinda cool.

[Oningyou]

Ahh 3D

I built 2 projector and I use pollorizer to do sterio view.

The nvidia driver works really great for this, but I wasn't able to find a solution for ATI cards (Atleast not yet).

I can't play games too long on this though. I get really sick playing fps using this thing... maybe if I'm using a smaller screen

[r3n0]

i used the nvida drivers for that but it usually messss up my computer

i think the latest stereo drivers is 61.77 but eh latest car drivers is 66.73 (dont work together) so i installed the 61.77 drivers for both, wow, hl2 never ran so horrible in my life

what drivers are u running for stereo and card?


"Go to the display properties, click settings, then click advanced. Now, click the geforce tab and at the bottom you should see some driver files and their version numbers. The top file in the list is the display driver, check the version number on the right side and it should end with the the numbers _____. If this is true then you have updated the display drivers properly. Next, scroll all the way to the bottom of the list and check the last file which is a stereo file, what version number is that? The last 4 numbers should be ___"

[Oningyou]

I'm using 66.73 I think.

I have 3 different Graphic card that I tried...

GeForce 4 - works great for low res-application.
GeForce Quadro 4 - works great.
GeForce 6800 Ultra - Computer crashes. I don't even get to see a screen. Maybe the new driver works better. Also the driver update would probably do some good too.

I have few ATI cards as well but I haven't found any drivers for them.
ATI 9700, ATI x800 PCI-E - nothing for both.

Maybe I'll try out the 61.77 driver and see what happens.

Need For Speed 2 seems to work pretty good. Anything that uses DirectX9 seems to have problems on my computer...

[slinkdog7167]

i have this adapter that plugs in to the vga card then on the other end to the monitor i got it at a computer show it was for 3d games you can play on your pc and it came with wireless 3d glasses.

[r3n0]

i have the edimenstional 3d glasses, they have a decent FAQ on their website about 3d stereo troubleshooting

[networktcp]

I own a standard CRT Monitor in addition to an LCD screen. The advantage of my CRT is that I can use 3D glasses to view TV, videos etc.. via the software that comes with the glasses. This only works with my CRT because the refresh rates are fast enough to flicker my screen rapidly enough from left to right, along with the lenses in my 3D glasses that rapidly shutter from left to right, to give me the 3D effect.

Last year ( I believe), Sharp introduced their Actius RD3D Laptop for which glasses weren't required. I thought.. "3D on an LCD panel, FINALLY!" This took advantage of binocular disparity via a double layered LCD panel. (shows one image slightly to the left, shuts off and then shows the next image slightly to the right.. in a matter of nano-seconds or similar timing. So the brain perceives 3D. Its the same as staring at an object and rapidly blinking the left eye then your right eye.. you see the object from 2 different perspectives. The sum effect is 3D. Now that was a VERY watered down explanation of 3D perception. So for the entire effect to be successful on the laptop, your head would have to be within 30 or 45 degrees from the center of the screen. In any case, for those that know how 3D works, and for those that can potentially invest in the idea, it's something worth looking into. To think, that for twice the cost of a single DIY projector, one can have a 3D home theater, quite possibly without the need for 3D glasses.. well, that'd be SOMETHING! Then again, if there is a need for a pair of glasses, still, it'd be worth it.

Had I the time and extra resources, I'd definitely look into it. Hence, if any of you do have those things, as well as the motivation.. this could be BIG.

Potential configuration options are:
1) Seeing that a single LCD panel has not the response time to shift an image from left to right quickly enough so that the brain perceives the stereoscopic result, one might be able to use 2 LCD panels in a box. This of course raises the concern for a diminished amount of light passing through both LCDs instead of having only one panel as well as a potential focal disparity with one panel being a few mm ahead of the other. Assuming these things are overcome with higher intensity lighting and focal tricks, both screens would then need to be attached to a stereoscopic splitter via the VGA connector, which takes the VGA signal (or whatever signal from your N5 or N6 which is being translated into VGA) and split the timing to display stereoscopically amongst both screens. I've not the engineering experience to design such a timing device, but 3D glasses manfacturers do.

2) The use of 2 projector boxes in the event that a double layered LCD setup is not possible, each still using a shared timing device. Certainly those boxes would sit in a fixed location and the projected images adjusted to slightly overlap eachother between their timing frequency.

3) Polarized lenses.. I know nothing of. anyone?

These options have the ability to turn 2D into 3D.. as opposed to something that was filmed with a 3D camera... which has a greatly enhanced output.

Food for thought.


PS: For details on that Sharp Laptop, see the following link:
http://www.direct2u.com.au/html/sharp_3d_laptop.html

[steve_TO]

I also have edimentional glasses (they work great for some games!, and work very little for others). Recently they have added support for lcd displays, so there should be no problem using them with out pjs!

[Syscrush]

From what I understand of this display (which is very little), I have a very difficult time imagining that the autostereo effect would not be destroyed by the projection optics.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will step up with some harder info.


Take it easy,
Phil.

[Oningyou]

Polorized setup is quiet simple

you need to polorize one of the Projectoer at 45 and the other at 135. Then of course you polorized glasses will be 45 and 135. (has to be 45 and 135)

Bad thing about polorized method is that you lose alot of light... LCD polorizes the light vertical/horizontal -> about 50% loss of light. Then you filter out the 45/135. Then you have the glass that will cause some light loss.

So your total light loss is about 75%... very dark I have it setup like this and I guess its not too dark.

I don't know about the other method though...

[networktcp]

Oning,
Is it anything special to see your projected movies THAT large in 3D? I wonder how IMAX does it.. I've been there and I believe they use LCD shutter frames, and Disney seems to use those passive polarized glasses.

Sounds like you have a good setup though.. lemme know some more!

[Oningyou]

Well, I usually use it to play 3d games, but my friend and I are writing few programs to play around with the 3d capability... GUI related test to see how well real 3d gui works and other programming releated topics.

If your pretty good with motion sickness or what ever you want to call it... you might be able to play FPS for a extended period of time (I can't). Racing games seems to be ok for me. Burnout 2 works great Racing game is actually easer to play in 3D on big screen

At the movie theater near my place, they use polarizer for IMAX 3D. These guys have a lot more advantage though... it doesn't have to go through 2 extra polarizer, so they only lose about 25% of the light.

Are you sure they use a LCD shutter glasses at your IMAX theater? That can get pretty expensive... compared to the polarized method. I've heard of places using shuter glasses before but how would these work... I thought they had to be sinked to the screen...

These guys sell glasses for 3d projection as well as polarizer.
http://www.berezin.com/3d/3dglasses.htm
I don't know the technical spec on these...

Edmund optics sell polarizer for pretty cheap as well.
http://www.edmundoptics.com/US/onlinecatal...?productID=1912


now make your self a 3d projector

[IDDQD]

From what I understand of this display (which is very little), I have a very difficult time imagining that the autostereo effect would not be destroyed by the projection optics.

Light is light, if a normal image can be projected form a single lcd, then 2 images can easily be projected through the same setup.

I already have a cunning wee idea for a 3d projector in my mind, that can take advantage of lost light, to make a brighter image. As for using twin lcd screens in a stereoscopic setup, you need a demultiplexer to split the signal to each lcd screen.

Im gonna do a quick drawing of what i had planned out.

...................................................................................

Alright I F'd up a bit on the diagram, and couldnt really be bothered altering it, so bear with me. the lcds are on the wrong angle, but the setup would still work.

black = box
grey = lcds/optics
dark blue = tempered glass
grey/yellow = bulb/reflectro
yellow = light usage (double standard setup, this will help the brightness, lcd shutterglasses dim the picture significantly)
green = mirrors
light blue = projection lenses

The last mirrors before the end of the box would need to be adjustable, so that both projected images can be aligned correctly. Would be best to have the projector sitting vertical (proj lenses are lined up vertically) otherwise keystone correction would be required on both axis.

I will hopefully get a chance to build one of these after my first project.

Attached File(s)

 3dproj.jpg ( 16.66K ) Number of downloads: 2

 

[maddmike]

This is a good idea simply for lost light. With the added bonus of extra cost. I see another possibility.. a side by side lcd array.. or align both to the same point for a double bright image.

i like the drawing.

[networktcp]

IDDQD (or shall I call you Mr. GodMode?)

That's a great idea (and great illustration!), especially to compensate for light loss. I assume that the gray areas include necessary fresnels etc..

My one question is: Can the fresnels in your diagram properly collimate the point light source from an angle other than perpendicular? This of course, is unless your point light source is intended on being perpendicular to both. It may take a lot of angle play, or perhaps more simply solved with 2 light sources.. man.. the heat!

PS. What'd ya use for illustration? ...looks a lot better than MS paint.

[networktcp]

Oning

Are you sure they use a LCD shutter glasses at your IMAX theater? That can get pretty expensive... compared to the polarized method. I've heard of places using shuter glasses before but how would these work... I thought they had to be sinked to the screen...

The glasses at my IMAX 3D in Miami were large, I could tell that there was a slight flickering to the lenses, plus it seemed to have an IR receiver built into the glasses, which is how they would synch to the screen (perhaps I should've called them "goggles" instead). The effect when watching those movies with bare eyes were the same as watching something with bare eyes on my CRT when the 3D emulation is running. Maybe they've switched to polarized lenses by now at my IMAX.. I was last there 18 months ago or so.

In terms of IDDQD's post, it can work either way by keeping a vga splitter to show the same image on each LCD and
1) using a polarized filter on each projector lens (which would still result in light loss)
2) using a shutter in front of each projector lens, in tandem with shutter-frame 3D glasses (in which there should much less light loss and eliminate the need for a VGA based LCD timer because the shutter in front of the lenses can be an unmanaged device not requiring software control at all)

[Oningyou]

2) using a shutter in front of each projector lens, in tandem with shutter-frame 3D glasses (in which there should much less light loss and eliminate the need for a VGA based LCD timer because the shutter in front of the lenses can be an unmanaged device not requiring software control at all)

This actually sounds pretty interesting.

Wiring for a thing like this would probably be very easy, but it might be hard to fit the lcd in the light path. These things are rather small and i can't find anybody that makes a custom LCD panel for such things.

If you can manage to figure out the optics, you can probably do the IR method you mentioned.

The only thing I like about the polarized method is that it feels much more smoother. Probably because I get the full 60Hz on both of my eye.

[networktcp]

but it might be hard to fit the lcd in the light path. These things are rather small and i can't find anybody that makes a custom LCD panel for such things.

Remember we're talking about a monochrome simple LDC shutter screen, perhaps no more than 5x5 to cover each projector lens. I'll look around. Thinking of the manufacturer of my 3D shutter glasses (X3D), I'll start there.

[networktcp]

Okay, from my previous post about looking into the manufacturer (or reseller) of my 3D glasses for custom made LCD monochrome frames, I've learned that they've changed their name from X3D to the Opticality Corporation, and they got 10 million more in funding to push 3D development.. http://www.opticalitycorporation.com/

They've taken the principle from the Sharp Actius RD3D Laptop (mentioned earlier in this thread) and made it bigger and for LCD TV.. Greater depth, broader viewing angle (120 degrees), no 3D glasses required, this stuff is very cool indeed. ..
see http://www.opticalitycorporation.com/digit...nage/index.html

[IDDQD]

This is a good idea about blocking the proj lens with lcds, that way they could be built as if they were a pair of glasses themselves, of course, that means a lot more light loss, as you would still require glasses yourself. A demultiplexer would still be required i think, or possibly a dual graphics card setup with a software demultiplexer.

"In terms of IDDQD's post, it can work either way by keeping a vga splitter to show the same image on each LCD"

The idea is to show a different image on each screen, one for the left eye, one for the right, which are alternated very quickly, as a single lcd is really fast enough to "draw" 2 frames when there would usually be one.

For the light angles in my diagram, I guess I F'd up again, this is what happens when you do things in a hurry. The light should appear straight up and down. The grey areas are lcd/fresnels To draw the diagram I used Macromedia Flash MX, (awesome little tool, really easy to draw in).

I dont really know much about these lcds that dont use glasses, but i will do a bit of research today. I got another 5 weeks off work atm, broke my wrist the other day, so I have plenty of spare time.