19´´tft Hd 1440x900 2000:1 3d Stereo Proyectors, 3D HDTV Stereo Proyector,Soft,SilverScreenDIY.... Options

[relieve3d]

Possible problems with your Silver DIY Screen:

As I said above always must be sprayed and of course the surfice must be flat, real flat. Beauce every wave or deform will appear cleary and will be very ammolling.

The Paint I had choosed is veryreflective, and be carefull with ambient light source which may cause glows or hotspots reflections on screen.

I had been testing and here the photos. I will made a real flat screen building a new wall beside it leaving a air space to avoid water humidity shadows.

As you can see below every wave, deform appear. And Silver paint are much reflective and brighter than white paint.

Don´t made this mistakes (ain´t may appear obviously): Use a real flat surffice and absolutliy dry.

Later I will try a mate-ing paint additive to reduce glares, glowing hotspot at reflections, but the best to avoid all that is make a real flat screen.

This post has been edited by relieve3d: Nov 20 2006, 09:38 AM

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[relieve3d]

Close up of a nonflat silver screen. All defects appear on imaging. Before paint it silver no defects appear at all. Note light more bright (the draken zone was about 200 lumen) at silver painted areas; high gain screen.
As well at rigth zone (silvered) appear so many defects at wall that seems to be blur. Left area looks flat ain´t it has equal defects than right.


Right black squarea are the photo camera shadow, and my finger below.
Photo was white balanced.

This post has been edited by relieve3d: Nov 20 2006, 09:08 AM

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[relieve3d]

Recently I have increased a liitle less than 50% of light using an Ikea reflector. There is a great diference withpout it.

Be carefull to join center of IKEA bowl, OsramHQ Lamp center, with fresnel focal center. Otherwise appear a circle of light and darken corners.

Results below...

(Here I am Yellow helmet at http://www.centrojovellanos.com/portal/int...MS=50&idi=1 )

This post has been edited by relieve3d: Nov 22 2006, 01:12 PM

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[relieve3d]

IKEA Buld, It a very good solution, and very cheap until Izzotek condenser( http://izzotek.com/achat/index.php?catid=26 ) and cold reflector ( http://izzotek.com/achat/index.php?catid=25 ) will arrived.

In addition Izzotek is in Europe (france) so you will no have surprise about import taxes, vat, shipping, or convertions from $ or pounds...... and It appear more cheap than Lumenlab.
The first PROLensKit I had brought at LumemLab Offer triplet plus both fresnel at same price that only triplet, but that offer is over and in Europe cost increase a lot with VAT, importTaxes, and Shipping secure. So for Eurpoe people is better buy (today) at Izzotek.

Using Ikea bowls wich are not a real sphere, will made two centers of reflected light, so never works like a real one. But the worst is that reflects too IR radiation and UV radiation, making shorter life Lamp and rising very a lot the heat at Lamp. Be carefull with fans it may explode.

This post has been edited by relieve3d: Nov 20 2006, 10:07 AM

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[relieve3d]

Is this the monitor you are using and if so how easy was it to strip?
Any FFC issues?

Have you tried a dvd in the 16:9 ratio? does it look ok and not stretched or oblong? Does the 16:9 ratio put black bars at top and bottom?

I am thinking about purchasing this one.

I had 3D on an old computer once. It rocked. Eye stain was tough after a while but it was awesome. I'm gonna check out your links.

Good job.

No Fcc required at all. Only Put to -GND every skew.
Some snapshoots adapting to different aspect ratios. While using 1440x900 (16:10) or at las any 16:9 resolution as 848x480 (like Vice C64emu) no deform will be appeciable (16/9 are so close to 16/10 to apprecite) or will appear. Some programs accept to tell them which acpect ratio are desired like MAME, Terratec Home Cinema, or simple adapt to native desktop resolution like power DVD, VLC, keeping aspect ratio always correct.

This post has been edited by relieve3d: Nov 20 2006, 10:09 AM

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[relieve3d]

more........

[relieve3d]

more........

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[llamameat]

Relieve, first of all congratulations on your progress and findings so far. I'm really amazed at the speed you are completing your project. My own 3d project has hit a stand-still since I've run out of the funds I would need, though I'll be picking it up again in a few months. At the rate you're going, it looks like you'll be the first to bring this technology to life on this forum.

It's good to hear some confirmation that vertically flipped 45 degree/polarized panels will work for passive 3d. This is the theory that I am pursuing as well. You're also using Nvidia's planar3d mode, which I suspected you would have to. I've heard that this 3d mode has more compatibility issues with some games than other modes, have you found this to be true?

Have you considered making the front polarizer of both panels easily removable? What I mean is, you could make triplet-based front polars which you could slide out of the light path when you use the projectors for 3d, essentially making the polarizers in the glasses the front polars, and slide them back in for 2d work/movies. This would be a serious increase in brightness for 3d gaming, although I hesitate to recommend it because the constant projection of white light might hurt your contrast too much.

Also, based on your results so far, do you think you'll be pleased with the final brightness for 3d gaming? This has been my main concern and it's why I've spent what little spare time I've had lately trying to design a more efficient light engine for DIY (I will update my plog with the new design once I've proven to myself that it'll work).

I can't wait to see your continued progress. Best of luck!

This post has been edited by llamameat: Nov 21 2006, 11:34 AM

[llamameat]

Another thing you might want to look into is complete replacement of the polarizers with the ultra high contrast ones from polarization.com. LL member Elken2004 has reported that light extinction is greater for this film, which is important for separation of the images (i.e less ghosting).

[brutuz]

IKEA Buld, It a very good solution, and very cheap until Izzotek condenser( http://izzotek.com/achat/index.php?catid=26 )

I was thinking of getting one of those condensers from Izzotek but im not sure yet. The largest size is 90mm
im am not sure if it is suitable for 15.4" LCD screen 220/650 Fresnels. I think those condensers are for smaller screens like the 7" Lilleput and 8" Hami LCD screens

[relieve3d]

Relieve, first of all congratulations...........I can't wait to see your continued progress. Best of luck!

Thanks a lot.

I had testted to put polarizator at triplet but it eats many light and gets more blury. So I use only one polarizator for all at each proyector. The unique polarizator I use is Rosco Iberica polar-film beside LCD and the angle of these is valid too for standart 3DGlasses. No extra polarizator are add, at any part. This means we don´t block light unnecesary, the same LCD polarization is what we use for 3D (both requiere linear polarization). LCD to make the imagine visible need polarized light and this is what we need to block each eye to other croosing 90º angle polarization as shown previous post.

I don´t belive there was many kinds of linear polarizations and many "builders", I brought in a photoStudio/video/TV/cine lighting shop, at 44€ prize but the same at 3D specialist shop will cost hundres, or thousands of euros Tecco http://www.tecco.es/default.aspx?info=000089 205€(no vat,shipping, packg...), cyviz http://www.cyviz.com/viz3d.htm . Polarizer era very used to imagine studios to avoid undesired brightness or hotspots at water, jewely, or metaliic objetcs.

To avoid problems with LCD I have it mounted in its original frame but electronic PCB at 90º degrees block many ligth at orizontally flipped LCD. This problem will be off cutting fresnels (but too much fragile) or making one proyector split and other unsplit. So after testing I will do the both proyector identically and unsplit configuration, for me it looks better. The LCD will not be flipped, will be the same and the unique diference between both proyectors will be the polarizer one will be correct oriented to 45º LCD and the other was inverse 135º. This means one proyector will appear images with colours right (as photo diapo) and the other will appear inverse color (as negative photo 35mm film). To correct this, one more time we use our fantastic Nvidias driver as you can see below. This drivers let as to control each VGAoutputColours ain´t using a clone setup (2d) or stereo (3D).
Actually I was using and I get used to have DuakHead monitors, one for desktop (19inches LCD monitor, beside sittting room sofa), internet, emule, control video/DVD, edting video,karokeSelecting, MameSelecting.... and the other (big screen in front of sofa and outdoor proyector) to multimedia, tv, gaming, karaokeReading, movies, mameGaming.

So, When I turn on Stereo 3D I need 2outs for left and right eyes and an additional one for desktop out. I have to had 2 VGAVideo Cards. The best (not tested) will be two NvidiaQuadro of high gama, after it an SLI Dual Nvidias G7900 (require a new PC, new main board, new formating systems, and many euros......). And the cheaper and simplex solution is use another video card for desktop, PCI (not recomended) or PCIex1 (much better). So now I have two dualhead videocards:
1. Nvidia GeForce 6600 PCIex16 For Stereo 3D, First out Left eyes and 2econd for right eyes. In 2D mode will de cloned left to right (x2 brighter proyection, be sure to correct alingment to avoid 2D ghosting)
2. Matrox Milenium G550 PCIex1 For windows desktop (a very good Card used normalliy for CAD, 911/112 emergency center, Ofimatica multidiaplays systems, traffic control centers, stereoplotteropereitor....)

Then we have 3 VGA active outs:
1 Permanent Desktop --->Splitter----->To desktop Monitor(sittingroom), To desktop Monitor (Garden outdoor)
2 Multimedia LEFT-------->Splitter----->To Multimedia Monitor(sittingroom),to MMonitor (Outdoor), To LEFT DIY proyector (outdoor) and to Kitchen (later).
3 Multimedia RIGHT--------------------->To Multimedia RIGHT Inverse colours DIY proyector(outdoor).


Note: For 2D video and some LiveTV applications render to a directx surffice which is not cloned by videocard, So You wil have Left eyes with video and right eyes cloned the same except that surfice which appear black. So No double light with some application on 2D mode. This could be solved playing with Stereoscopic player every Media, which contains a 2D mode for 2D dual output at 3D config setup.

For 3D gaming, especially doom3 or quake4, which are many dark, I looks them dark, enought to playing but as dark as monitor playing. No silver screen zones it was too much dark to be confortable, but zones painted (in spite of tested ina non real flat wall) look very well, not as a monitor CRT or LCD with brightness at all but I insist the is dark. It happend me before with and Hitachi proyector 200 lumen. Otherwise I will chage soon my 400w to an 1000w osram HQ FC2 and izzotek reflector and condenser. The test proyectors photos was made 4,16 metres x 2,60 metres at outdoor (no total dark, moon, streets light.....). The final screen will be about 5 metres x 3,125 metres. So when imagen size is a bit larger light descend exponentially.

In this photo you can see me at left side.

This post has been edited by relieve3d: Nov 22 2006, 11:23 AM

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[relieve3d]

I was thinking of getting one of those condensers from Izzotek but im not sure yet. The largest size is 90mm
im am not sure if it is suitable for 15.4" LCD screen 220/650 Fresnels. I think those condensers are for smaller screens like the 7" Lilleput and 8" Hami LCD screens

I had to buy the second optics and it was cheaper at izzotek than LL, whole price (vat, importNO-UE...) not only original price. So I order a pair for testing I not sure what will happend but I have seem opaques proyectors for dinA4 with a little minor conderser. I will post result as soon as it will arrive and mounted.

[relieve3d]

3D Technique
I am using a MatroxG550 PCIex1 and a PCIeX16 NvidiaG6600 the last one as main/ primary display.
Negative variant refer to use stereo dualVGA L-R proyection without fliping LCD. Both LCD will proyect images directly but one of then (rigth in this case) will has a flipped LCD and reflipped by an mirror (as vertical mounting). After this both proyectors will proyect colors correctly but with an inversed polarization angle. So each proyector only will be visible to each eye (while using 3d glasses).
So Left Proyector 3a polar angle will be "\" and right polar angle will be "/", when you put your passive linear polarization glasses (DIY or comercial) each eyes only could see each proyector but never both at once (ghosting / double images).
With this we safe at all the light that will be absorb by second polarizator because the only and unique polarizator used is what we replaced for LCD (one correct and other 90º crossed(Flipped)).

This post has been edited by relieve3d: Feb 7 2007, 05:35 PM

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[relieve3d]

Clone secundary monitor for 2D usage.....

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[relieve3d]

Change first mon to third one. Other wise stereo driver will not work properly except pageglip stereo mode.
The stereo display must be the last monitor to create an after last monitor without interfirances with another monitor. If you put first mon to stereo 3d and second to matrox when you want to go 3D Left and right channels keep mixed at first monitor because second one is occuped by matrox. Putting stereo mon at third place it can creatre 3b (older one) to create the second stereo video channel.

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[relieve3d]

result...

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[relieve3d]

INVERTED colors could not be corrected fully from drivers. Polarizer must be replaced correctly

This post has been edited by relieve3d: Feb 7 2007, 05:28 PM

[relieve3d]

So finallly we have 1 monitor unused, 2monitor used for desktop by matrox and 3 for stereo3D nvidia. The stereo3d has two vga outputs 3a for multimedia monitor and stereo Left and 3b for stereo right at second DIY proyector.

This post has been edited by relieve3d: Feb 7 2007, 05:37 PM

[relieve3d]

Every thing tested until today has works properly at stereo3D. Here some games tested for Planar mirror and DualVGA-LR, also with 7.1 creatiave audigy4 and 7.1 speakers:

Doom3 7.1 (must be updateed by path EAX)
Quake4 7.1
Halo 7.1
Half Life2 7.1

Trackmania Stereo
TrackmaniaSunrise 7.1
Daytona USA Stereo (2Player can play at once at 3Dstereo with only one PC)
Test Drive6 Stereo
Outrun 2006 Unknow Stereo
Need for Speed CARBORN 2006 Unknow Stereo
EA f1 2006 Unknow Stereo

There is no reason to don´t work any PC game, beacuse everall games use directX or direct3D for playing which is dualrender by nvidia´s stereo driver.

All games can play at full resolution and detalis with my G6600 without "pauses" and a high framerate, including NFSpeedCARBON2006. The unique except was Quake4 which has a unconstant frame rate in stereo mode including at minimun configuration (I don´t konw if ram/procesor may interference because harddisk works hardly when enemies appear or huge high poligons scene appear). At maximum ultra resolution monoscopic works pecfectly, only slow hits playind in stereo3D.

2D normal windows usage are full cloned left and right, only some directsurfices like analog TV PCTV vision.exe or VLC don´t render images to dual Left and right (depending of codec). Digital TV terrestial, powerDVD and DVBviwer digital satellite TV appear on both screens (3a and 3b).

No problems has been found working at dual desktop between maxtor and Nvidia, displays.

This post has been edited by relieve3d: Dec 15 2006, 11:19 PM

[brutuz]

This is looking great, cant wait to see the results.

[llamameat]

Sweet! I didn't know you could invert the colors at the driver level (hadn't really thought of). This will solve a big design problem for me too. I was worried that with flipped panels, I would only be able to use both projectors at the same time in stereo mode since Nvidia doesn't seem to have a way to mirror-flip the windows desktop at the driver level. This will make things much easier.

It's a shame about 2d video rendering onto directx not getting cloned though. This hampers my dreams of 2x brightness somewhat.

[relieve3d]

STEREOSCOPIC PLAYER.
It was working perfrctly but since I insert matroxg550 it report ERROR: can´t create Directx9 device.
I don´t know what happend...... post later.
It wants to 3d dual 1Matroz and 3a Nvidia not Nvidia stereo driver.

wait for more......

Any body know how to avoid this mistake, most of 3dmodes of Stereoscopic player need Directx. How to solve?

This post has been edited by relieve3d: Nov 22 2006, 03:47 PM

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[relieve3d]

With this mistake is imposible to Play NvidiaStereoDriver, only work with anagliph (no directX). And with StereoMovieMaker and StereoMoviePlayer occur the same. All games works but I want to see my 2d to 3d converted movies in3D (not anagliph of course).

This post has been edited by relieve3d: Dec 12 2006, 12:22 PM

[relieve3d]

Sweet! I didn't know you could invert the colors at the driver level (hadn't really thought of). This will solve a big design problem for me too. I was worried that with flipped panels, I would only be able to use both projectors at the same time in stereo mode since Nvidia doesn't seem to have a way to mirror-flip the windows desktop at the driver level. This will make things much easier.

It's a shame about 2d video rendering onto directx not getting cloned though. This hampers my dreams of 2x brightness somewhat.

That´s correct. VLC depending of codec render dual screen or only one. Otherwise, the solution is use a VGAsplitter (about36€) to duplicate de Left eyes signal and put a swith to the second proyector selecting 2D (double light) mode or 3D mode. In this case polarizer must has been replaced correctly and the LCD must be flipped. (mirror flip is not valid to 3D because it makes twice flip 45 to 135 to 45 again, flipped must be done only in one axis).

With the LCD that I am working I could left the PCB vertically and flip freely without shadows, but shall I build a frame to protect the LCD from impacts, vibrations, and avoiding light running throught borders. This may be the best solution.

Left--->Splitter--->1Left Proyector, 2_Swich/selector Right proyector, 3_SittingroomHugeDisplay,.... N_others
Right------------------------------------>Swich/selector between Left signal (2D double bright) and Right signal (3D mode) (with my LCD this can be omited using VGA in fromLeftEyesSplitter and DVI in direct from PC).

About the mistake from Stereoscopic Player I belive that it want´s to use Nvidia driver with matrox, which is imposible. Later I will test to configure 1. Matrox 2. Nvidia (2a Left, 2b right) in ispite of actually 1.Nvidia 2.Matrox 3aLeft 3bRight. Perhaps the problem will be over puting Nvidia device consecutive Left and Rigth.

This post has been edited by relieve3d: Nov 23 2006, 07:29 AM

[relieve3d]

OK, StereoscopicPlayer problems solved.
It was very simple, when you open StereoPlayer, that windows may keep in any monitor but when you open the video file (2D or 3D) the stereoplayer window must be at Nvidia Monitor otherwise it can not create DirectX device (Nvidia driver can´t control Matrox video card). This Error will not appear (no tested) in a double NvidiaSLI solution but not everyboby would like to buy a new PC every two years, or at last buy two news Videocards (2x200=400€), one mainboard(100€) and format/reconfiguring and reintalls drivers, LAN, programs...... all again (many hours stolen to your life).

So it works correctly and including you can force a certain resolution at menu. Stereoscopic player play too AC3, DTS, and all Dolby formats (CODECS MUST BE INSTALLED). Some codec like aC3filter or ffdshow comes configured default 2.0 Stereo, so reconfig it to your system 2.1 5.1 6.1 7.1 9.1 11.1 Codecs used for test was AC3filter and ffdshow. About Speaker I highly recomend Creative GigaWorks S750 http://es.europe.creative.com/products/pro...mp;product=9306 (400€) for huge rooms or outdoors, and Creative Inspire 7900 http://es.europe.creative.com/products/pro...p;product=10321 (110€) for home. About choose 5.1 or 7.1 I choosed 7.1 not with many faith but there is a huge diference overall feeling different rear and side surround. At film it sorround sounds much richer (istead 7.1 is interpoleded from 5.1, 6.1, THX) and when gaming at 7.1 is totally a new experience, in fact you fell driections of shoots and how and where is talking to you (7.1 native not interpoled).


So, buy this way you can build you own HOME IMAX3D DIY. To make 3Dglasses DIY you could buy fake glasses from joke-shops and put/replece the "glass" with the rest of polarizer from the film used to repair LCDs.

Good luck guys.

This post has been edited by relieve3d: Nov 24 2006, 09:50 AM

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