Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Natural Newbie Oct 6 2006, 04:42 AM

another overhaul. time for indexing

Build Pics

• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=179771
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=180885
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=190259
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=190261
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=196407
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=196703
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=200306
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=215866
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=221106
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=238826
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=241641

Useful Finds/info

• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=196953
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=239353

Results

• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=198162
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=238506
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=239580
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=239738
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=239944
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=239978
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=239982
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=240435
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=240441

Bits and Bobs

• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=208143
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=219772
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=221963
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=222450
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=223232
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=223356
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=224269
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=232025
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=235728
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=236338
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=238132
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=217083
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=238766
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=238894
  
• http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=239480

------------------------------------------------------

OK this first post needs an overhaul I am going to re-calculate (im scared) cost, and update the parts used. I am also going to put some quick tid-bit notes along in the new post. I am going to leave the old info at the bottom on grey.

killd POS synaps $143 (bad contras ratio, white line of pixels on top of screen)
Killed samsung panel $209(could not get AG off, then broke FCC from all the handling, still nice panel however), bad price though)
Toshiba WUXGA off ebay $130 (good price, very nice panel, distilled water AG removal in 5 hours {easy})
G2A 130 $345
4x sycthe s flex 800 RPM. projector is silent with these, and pull enough air, 1 on ballast, 1 on LCD, 2 on lamp chamber $75
LL pro lense kit $200 (i kind of wished I went with a 22" beseler now, as the diameter is larger and could have gotten in cheaper)
LL eballast and 65K lamp $200 (currently using, too much arc spillage, and i think the eballast is overrated)
S51 and S400DD $100 (upcoming)
LL pro reflector $15
LL wiring kit $25 (the switch and cord and breaker is nice, could of gotten cheaper on mcmaster.com or all electronics, or electric goldmine etc...)
LL 18pin FCC $15 (gratiously donated to another member! Crap! I forgot to include that as a tax writeoff )
Got simple component to VGA cable for $10 on ebay, and sold the VDIGI (73 purchase price) for $103!!! so +$20 here
LL shipping $27
LL FS mirror $33 (sucked, has alum missing from mirror, so it let specs of light through, warps easy, and seems to make things blurry)
ebay laser 94% mirror (thick and bad to the bone) $47 i think
precon from durachko $10 (you rock man!) (currently making mount for it)

2 more sycth fans $40
3dlens 550 and 330 $50 or something like that
dryer vent tube $6


mcmaster stuff
linear slide rail n blocks $120
all my nuts, bolts, weather stripping, tools i needed, stuff that can be used on future projects bla bla $100-$200
capacitors $8
lexan from hd $20 i think

maple plywood from lumer yard $240


black fidelio velvet $40
dazain polysilk screen (sucked)$40, but i have the material to my girlfriend to make curtains, so +1980231732821342 brownie points
dick blick art, pre primered canvas $36 (lets a bit of light through, but a nice white)
home depot wood n hangars for screen $20

lots of donated aluminum
donated thermocouple
donated hour timer
donated heatsink for G2a genesis chip
donated wire and heat shrink

more blabbering to come...

Hello all, let me introduce myself; Natural Newbie, resident tinker-er, paintball and race car fanatic. Future engineer., forgot to add, likes to use the mill and lathe!

I've been wanting to go HD for a long time, and this is the perfect way to do it!

The synaps monitor came in tonight, here is my ordered parts list so far.

Synaps 15.4" 1280x800 $143 w/shipping received Oct 5, 2006 broke it on accident taking frame off
Going for 15.4 WUXGA now SAMSUNG model $209 shipped ebay received Oct 27, 2006
G2A210 or G2A130 $345 shipped from winmate.comrecieved Nov 1, 2006
4x Scythe S-FLEX 120mm 1200RPM 800RPM fans $75 recieved Oct 9, 2006 Apparently I was drunk when I ordered these, only 8.7dBA and 33.5 CFM (100.5 CFM total, the other fan is for the power supply.), they should work OK. I wanted the 1200RPM fans at 20.1dBA and 49 CFM.
LL pro lense $200 recieved Oct 13, 2006
LL eBallast and T15 lamp $200 recieved Oct 13, 2006
LL pro reflector $15 recieved Oct 13, 2006
LL wiring kit $25 recieved Oct 13, 2006
LL 18pin FFC ext. $15 recieved Oct 13, 2006
VDIGI VD-Z3 $73 recieved Oct 13, 2006 2x rocker switches from mcmaster $18 recieved Oct 19, 2006
lindear slide rail with 2 guide blocks $120 recieved Oct 19, 2006
2yds Black fidelio velvet $40 recieved Nov 1, 2006
LL shipping $27

Lots of maple plywood (for the box and table it will be sitting on) $240
Lots more of random hardware from mcmaster $100

sub total: $1,845 :angry2: i think, i passed calc 3 and differential eq. but I still can't add... including broken synaps...

But this thing is going to be sweet and i love a good project and commercial projectors make me sad so


I plan on making the box out of oak maple plywood (in the standard LL strait box single fold horizontal, unsplit fresnels) with a nice stain finish.

I hope to have a very nice fit and finish on this overall project. Can't wait to get more parts so I can start designing!

EDIT: Nov 2, 2006
I removed pictures of the synaps since im not using it anymore

Posted by: ukagr Oct 7 2006, 03:05 AM

could you post some picks of the monitor in action. ie how it scales movies and at different resolutions.

Posted by: DarkMeat Oct 7 2006, 12:26 PM

Hi welcome to the forums I don't want to give you any bad news but be very careful with that monitor. I'm pretty sure I heard of someone buying one that had ffc issues but it may have been an older model. Save all the parts just in case you have to put it back together.

Looking forward to seeing your build.

DM

Posted by: Natural Newbie Oct 7 2006, 08:28 PM

Yes, as of now the only input I have is my PC, once the VDIGI comes in I can use my xbox and DVD player. I'll include a list of resolutions I found compatible.



I have heard of the FFC issue; another member (c0v3rr1d3) of the forum got this monitor working with the standard 18 pin extension, so that is a good sign

Link to c0v3rr1d3 plog
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14269

Spending time with the lady this weekend. Updates on monitor should come Monday-ish!

Posted by: arctan Oct 7 2006, 08:35 PM

Welcome to the forum. I'm curious where you ordered you VDIGI from? Looking forward to see this one at the finish line.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Oct 7 2006, 11:47 PM

I ordered from http://www.vdigi.com/ they only take paypal and say it may take 2 weeks for delivery. Hope it comes...

Thanks for the welcomes guys!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Oct 8 2006, 08:12 PM

Go figure, when I first get the synaps there are no dead pixels, second time I fire it up there is a dead (dark) in the upper right! Oh well, it's only a temp. screen anyways. And hey, at least I'm back on my 1600x1200 21" viewsonic

Here are the synaps OSD settings

(removed picture of synaps)

brightness - auto and manual
contrast
phase
clock
h pos
v pos
reset
color temp - user, 6500, 9300
red
green
blue
language
misc - OSD h pos,OSD v pos, OSD time, auto color (i guess the screen can do that?)

resolutions that worked (coming from nVidia Gforce3)
res hz
320x200
320x240 60-75
400x300 60
480x360 60
512x384 60-75
640x400 60-75
640x460 60-75
640x640 60
720x480 60-75
800x600 60-75
848x480 60-75
1024x768 60-75
1024x1024 60
1152x864 60-70
1280x720 60-70
1280x768 60-70
1280x800 60-70
1280x1024 60
1360x768 60

There is no 1:1 scaling, nor fit to screen retaining aspect ratio. It simply just stretches to fit the native 1280x800.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Oct 13 2006, 08:33 PM

Updated my first post, recived the LL parts and the VDIGI today.

Hooked up my 480P DVD player and XBOX. Both looked good (for being 480 :-P ) and brightness was good.

Only concern is my fresnels are warped. I have them sitting on a flat surface (in it's protective wrapping) with some college text books on them. If they don't straiten up by themselves hopefully the frames will take care of that.

Action pics of the VDIGI on the synaps later!

Anyone else have experience with warped fresnels?

Posted by: Votey Oct 13 2006, 08:59 PM

My fresnels from 3DLens are warped, probably a combination of temperature changes and being shipped in an envelope and sandwiched by cardboard.

I have done the same thing, just placed them on a flat surface with something heavy and flat on top of them. But I have my doubts about it working since it's SO FREAKING COLD here, might need a little heat to make them more flexible.

So I'm thinking of going to a vertical build, for the sole reason that it might help me force those fresnels to lie flat. But then I'd have to buy glass to support them. But it would make building the light engine a LOT easier.... Hmmm...

Posted by: Natural Newbie Oct 13 2006, 09:59 PM

Haha tell me about it. 34 degrees F , in October!! I get home in about 5 hours, I'll see how there doing. I am strict on a regular dog coffin setup, and don't want to loose lumens with extra glass... So I might use some heat to try and flatten them, or build super duper frames. Only time will tell.

Posted by: vonneuton Oct 13 2006, 10:07 PM

If you're really careful, I flattened mine by heating them in the oven and then putting
them on a flat surface with something heavy on top of them. No idea what temp to do
it at, since it's been awhile.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Oct 14 2006, 09:19 PM

Progress!?


Wiring up the mogul to the ballast



getting ready to fire! Going to do break in.



I hear a couple flickers, small green glow, then, THEN, THEN!!!

NOTHING, FOR OVER 12 MINUTES!!! WTF!
I unplugged...
Checked circiut breaker, everything OK
Checked fuse in ballast, everything OK
Checked solder joints, everything OK
Double checked bulb is making contact with electrode in mogul, everything OK


Ideas anyone?

Action shots on the synaps on the way, soon today.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Oct 14 2006, 10:59 PM

OK WELL
after investigating, the mogul comes wired wrong. It has the hot (white) going to the threads of the bulb and the ground (black) going to the center of the mogul. After switching these so hot is in the center and ground is on the threads, plug the ballast in and BAM first strike (18:40)



lower exposure


With it wired originally the green flicker started at the bottom of the bulb,
with it wired my way the whole thing lights up instanly.
Bulb scematics has the threads going to the top of the arc chamer, and the bottom of the arc chamber goes to the center of the mogul.

Here are the pics of the synaps, it is VERY HARD to get pics of this because of the crappy AG

starwars battlefront2, 640x480. run in widescreen mode on the xbox, that is why the retucule is squished, as you can see the scaling isnt the best (tad blurry)
(removed picture of synaps)

true crime streets of LA, this game sucks, i rented it last night to see how 720P looks, its run in 1280x720. looks good (camera picked up ghosting)
(removed picture of synaps)

matrix reloaded, 640x480, looked OK in person, a upconverting DVD player in 720 would look great
(removed picture of synaps)

for some reason with certain resolutions this monitor has a line of white pixels on the top or bottom. nothing that cant be fixed with a triplet shutter. and besides, it is a cheapo temporary $130 monitor.

Bulb is still burning, even brighter now (18:57)

Posted by: Natural Newbie Oct 16 2006, 11:06 PM

I burned the bulb in for 9 hours and 40 minutes on oct 14th.

I try to light it again today and nothing? I'm going to try a different outlet when I get home from work and see what happens.

I stipped the synaps. It was cake. The front cover comes off just by sliding your fingernail under it (only snaps on). And a few screws to take the power supply out. The LCD frame uses small screws, easy to get out. When I get home I will plug the FFC extension in and take pics (after I figure out my stupid lamp issue).

Posted by: Natural Newbie Oct 17 2006, 06:36 AM

Well my lamp strikes first time in the outlets in my projector room. Then I lost power, and it strikes second time after that. So that is a good sign. The projector room has newer wiring then my workroom.

Synaps is a pain in the butt! The FFC on the monitor is way thinner than the extension so it would take lots of fanaggling to get it to work. But even worse news I cracked the LCD itself (must be a weak POS because I was very gentle with it). So I will be looking for a Sharp WUXGA and G2A controller now. Wish me luck on my next LCD. BTW I would not reccoment the synaps because the FFC is not just plug in and go. It would require fanaggling and a custom union (since they both dont fit in the LL one).

Posted by: Natural Newbie Oct 19 2006, 07:15 AM

lamp still strikes first time now (when cool) in my projector room, SWEET!

since i broke my synaps stripping it, i figured i would practice AG removal. soaked it for about 3-4 hours, picked a corner with my fingernail, pulled slowly, 45 seconds later AG was removed with no residue! may i add i had paper towel hanging over the edges a bit and the polarizer is still fine!

go figure, LCD glass breaks easily, but AG comes off easy and polarizer is water resistant...

looking for a sharp wuxga on ebay.


decided to go with a single fold in the dogcoffin design, so the projector doesnt protrude so far away from my couch. Got the raytrace done, looks good.

waiting for my linear slide rail to come in from mcmaster to mount the triplet and lamp on. Once that comes in I will go to the lumberyard, get some wood, start cuttin and mountin!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Oct 24 2006, 08:04 PM

Been slow, between college homework, and not being able to use the machine shop at work, grr! I am making research progress on the WUXGA setup however, so that is good. Hope to have this done by Christmas.

Posted by: Rizzo_Bah Oct 24 2006, 09:10 PM

Fanaggling? WTF?

Are you saying that the FFC extension will require some type of glue/fastener to keep it connected? If so, it may not be too bad. Silicon or epoxy should work well once the extension allows the panel to function and produce an image.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Oct 24 2006, 09:32 PM

Fanaggling, tweaking, rigging, etc... hehe.



The synaps FFC is thinner than the LL extension. the LL extension cable will fit into the board on the synaps, it is a tight fit however.



Next there is the union piece were the extension and original FFC go into. The union is a small white block with a tan clip. It is very hard to fit both of the FFCs in there with the tan clip. What I had to do is put them in the union, and hot glue them in without the tan clip. Make sure when you put it together you have the electrical contacts facing each other.



I did get my monitor working (even tho it is cracked), it just takes time and gentleness.

I cracked my LCD when taking the frame off, i pushed on the corner a tad to hard when taking out a screw.

Make sure you have a very good set of small screwdrivers so you can take the screws out with little effort.





Another member got the synaps to work,

Link to c0v3rr1d3 plog
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14269



check out this thread for reference on the extension kit

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4503

Posted by: Natural Newbie Oct 28 2006, 07:39 PM

finished the triplet mount, it is on a linear slide rail
http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01991nh7.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01992zb5.jpg

And my focus adjuser nob
http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01996bq5.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01997ep4.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01998oc7.jpg

The samsung WUXGA came yeserday, waiting for my G2A to come to test it out.

Also I am in the process of making my fresnel frames, making them out of poplar tree wood.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Nov 2 2006, 06:07 AM

finished my power switch panel., brushed aluminum
http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02000ez2.jpg

Just got the G2A 130 in, works with the SAMSUNG WUXGA! full 1920x1200, and 1080P !!!!! :-D

BTW, does anyone know how to edit the topic title for a thread? I tried editing my first post but I could not figure it out. Thanks!

Posted by: GSX Nov 2 2006, 06:17 AM

That panel looks great. How much was the controller?

Posted by: t4orce Nov 2 2006, 06:24 AM

OK, I'm officially jealous now.. very nice


You know I was wondering the same question, perhaps someone else can shed light on that, I'm really no help am I

btw. I like the mount for the lens, should turn out really nice, with high res as well, can't wait for screen pics..

Posted by: Natural Newbie Nov 2 2006, 06:37 AM

$345 shipped.



Thanks, I can't wait either!

Posted by: SIMUL8R Nov 2 2006, 07:31 AM

Go to your very first post of this thread and choose full edit then choose Topic Title and or Topic description then edit.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Nov 8 2006, 06:56 PM

Had the day off work yesterday (voting day). Completed the wiring harness for the projector. The wiring harness will be underneath the projector in the AV cabinet (seen in my HTLOG).

A shot of the workroom, the power switch panel loom, fan loom, and lamp loom are seen on the floor. You can see the lamp wires are twisted to keep interference down.
http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02009po5.jpg

Closeup of fan wires, twisted for neatness
http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02010ok0.jpg


My finers have blisters on them from twisting all those wires , but it sure does make thinks nice!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Nov 9 2006, 07:36 AM

I removed the pic of the powerswitch panel from the post above, I had it wired wrong seriously

Here is a pic of it wired correctly

http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02014ts1.jpg


in action!

Posted by: Techy101 Nov 10 2006, 12:33 AM

FWIW, White/Red is hot in audio and many other low voltage/DC situations. But in 120V black is supposed to be hot, that's defined by the codes.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Nov 10 2006, 02:34 AM

Hmm, thanks for the info! Well either way the lamp works now.

Posted by: Pirin Nov 10 2006, 02:44 AM

You know, I had the same questions when I wired up my lamp. I got the new VUE eBallast, and I thought that black was HOT (which was wired to the center of the mogul). However, the wiring diagram that comes with the VUE says that black output wire goes to the mogul threads and the white output wire goes to the lamp center.

That means that the black eBallast wire gets connected to the white mogul wire and the white eBallast wire gets connected to the black mogul wire. Seems quite backwards... So, in my burn-in test, I connected black to black and white to white (so what I thought was HOT got connected to the center of the bulb).

I ran the burn in successfully for 7 hours that way, but the eBallast got quite warm (no way was it 'cool to the touch'). It makes me wonder if the output of the eBallast has HOT as its white wire??? I think I will try connecting as the eBallast directions state and see if my eBallast stays cool to the touch (since this PLOG shows it wired up that way). Anyone think this is a horrible idea???

Posted by: Natural Newbie Nov 10 2006, 03:18 AM

Well, can't hurt to try right? Mine is working now, I don't want to jinx myself.

My ballast gets very warm, but I can keep my hand on it.

And I know what you mean pirin, same thoughts on the wiring!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Nov 16 2006, 07:26 AM

Completed my first fresnel frame. 1" square extruded aluminum.


Here are two pics of the wind tunnel for the eballast. (located on the AV cabinet, more pics can be seen in my HTplog)

http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02021he3.jpg
My power one PS came in for the fans also. Will wire that up soon.

I have made so much progress but I am still soo far away! But there is light at the end of the tunnel

Posted by: Natural Newbie Nov 29 2006, 07:46 AM

Pictures? Too lazy

I have made progress...
Finished 2nd fresnel frame
90% done with lamp/reflector mount (fully adjustable)
mounted; fans, power supply, and switch panel to AV cabinet
made 8mmx1 threaded rods from scratch (to hold fresnels and LCD)

I dont know when I will post pictures next, it gets annoying to me. If i dont post any of my progress I will definatly post the finished product.

Posted by: esoteric Nov 29 2006, 09:07 PM

Well, I wouldn't mind seeing how you've constructed your adjustable lamp/reflector mount. I'm not quite sure how I'm going to go about this..

Posted by: Durachko Nov 30 2006, 01:42 PM

Sweet looking metal work you're doing. Yep, I'm jealous. What's your shop like? I'd like to make a metal faceplate for all my switches and buttons but was leaning towards copper. Maybe I'll switch to aluminum and paint it though. Again, nice work!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Dec 1 2006, 07:05 AM

just for you esoteric! Lots of pics of my lamp reflector mount . It is all made out of 1/8" aluminum. Cut on a break, holes and slots done on a mill.

Here is a view of the full setup. It is on a linear slide rail for for and aft adjustment.
http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02024jz5.jpg

Vertical up and down adjustment of the lamp
http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02025pc5.jpg

Reflector mount. Used the tabs off a 120mm fan grill. A piece of fiberglass is behind the reflector to help hold it.
http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02026bg0.jpg

3 point adjustment of the reflector
http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02027zt4.jpg

reflector mount can be moved up/down and pivoted
http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02028pz6.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Dec 1 2006, 07:06 AM

left and right adjustment of the bulb and reflector
http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02029ni2.jpg

view of the top of the AV cabinet. The unstained piece will be the base of the projector. The two fans will pull air down for cooling the bulb area.
http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02030lh5.jpg

Under the AV cabinet. The fans, 12v/5v power supply, back of power switch panel
http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02033br0.jpg

The vent tunnel mounted to keep hot air out of AV cabinet
http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02034pw9.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Dec 1 2006, 07:06 AM

Fresnel frame (final version, the one before wasnt complete, I lied.
http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02022yx7.jpg

closeup of the hold-down
http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02023qm9.jpg

durachko,
the work is done wither in my shop (pic in previous post) or at the machine shop at work. I work in a dynamometer lab, at ford. We have a decent machine/fabrication shop (mill, lathe, bender, break, bandsaw, etc...)

For the switch panel, you can easily make the brushed finish. 120 grit (i think) 320 grit and back and forth motion

Posted by: Natural Newbie Dec 19 2006, 08:52 AM

thermocouple readout (*F)
http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02046so7.jpg


Whats this?
http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02049hf6.jpg

Ahh, yes, the monitor OSD board button panel
http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02052xs8.jpg

Getting ready for a test projection (kinda)
http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02054zu9.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Dec 19 2006, 08:56 AM

This is what worries me.

I used the water method and only got this far


with these nasty streaks. I cant tell if they are glue or the polorizer coming up


in the next few days im going to do ~15% acetone 85% water for 2 hours and see what happens.

I also removed the clear film off the back and the "mirror" looking layer off the back. No water, just slow, incremental pulling.

I hope this panel still works after im done with it

Posted by: GSX Dec 19 2006, 10:03 AM

The OSD buttons look amazing Beats the crap out of my idea.

As for the panel, it looks like it needs more soaking. I had similar issues with my lcd. I did the acetone soak as a last resort, but was a bit lax on the mixing. Next thing I know, my polar is lifting easier then the ag... Hope it works out better for you, than it did for me.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Dec 19 2006, 07:48 PM

Thanks! I probably spent too much time on it, but it was worthwhile

Maybe I should only do 10% instead of 15% on the acetone then. Im so nervous about this panel. I want to be watching movies by next week, and if the panel dies it will be at least another 2 week wait. Thanks for the luck, I might need it!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Dec 20 2006, 09:18 AM

lots of flat black parts,..,.,.,, i feel dizzy,,,, goodnight

http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02059qg3.jpg


tomorro is the 10% acetone stripping the rest of the LCD, then, the final build

Posted by: chkrickt@comcast.net Dec 20 2006, 05:31 PM

I've heard others complain about streaks after removing AG. If they don't rub out using acetone, you might want to try polishing them out using a product designed for polishing plastic.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Dec 21 2006, 07:22 AM

Thanks for the tip.

Well I'm 2 hours into the 10% acetone soak, and the AG is still not coming up any easier.


Another thing to note, when I hold the LL FS mirror up to light, I can see little specs where there is no coating (letting light through). This thing is brand new, and those missing spots are more than likely going to show up on my projection Anyone know where to get a good FS mirror?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Dec 21 2006, 05:51 PM

I hate anti glare!

I bumped it up to 20% acetone, 8 hour soak. Still wont come up the rest of the way. The AG is still brittle and hard to pull up. :-(

Any ideas? I cross posted this with my plog and the AG strip.

Posted by: jonjandran Dec 21 2006, 05:58 PM

I had a 15.4" like this. I think I soaked for over 24 hours before I got it all off. And it took forever just to get a corner started to be able to pull it up. And then it came up in about 30 strips.

Good Luck.

Posted by: Fulcrum Dec 21 2006, 06:47 PM

Natural Newbie,

It looks like you have great wood working skills, and metal working skills too for that matter. Your PJ looks simply awesome, nice an professional.

The holes for your fans look nice a clean and straight. But you could make them even better. Since it appears you have over an inch of wood in front of them, your air flow will increase, if you put a bell mouth (aka curved radius) at the front opening. The straight sharp edge opening impedes the air flow. A curved radius of upto 20% provides optimium flow (radiuses above 20% are only marginally better, so shoot for 20%).

Cheers!

Fulcrum

Posted by: Natural Newbie Dec 22 2006, 12:51 AM

jonjandran, thanks for the luck!

Fulcrum, thanks for the compliments!

I knew a radius along the top circumference would help, it's just that I dont have a router . I did not know however; the majic 20% number, I will keep that in mind, thanks for the advice

Another update on the panel, 30% acetone, at 9 hours i am going to see if its melted or not

And im already bidding for another panel on ebay $$$$

Posted by: GSX Dec 22 2006, 05:47 AM

I got my fs mirror from the guy in the link below. Good quality, on a nice thick piece of glass(no flexing)

http://stores.ebay.com/vette4jja30

I feel your pain on the AG removal. I must have soaked my for over 20 hours. Ag lifted at the end, but the polar did too.. Maybe you should replace the polar instead of getting a new panel.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Dec 22 2006, 07:49 AM

Thanks for the link. New polar is an option also, hmm, decisions decisions.

Well, this made me happy
http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02078fe6.jpg
http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02079ay3.jpg
http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02080gj7.jpg

120" diag
no alignment yet

lamp is 1/4" too high

fresnels 1/8" off center

slight moire effect, going to move fresnels further apart

Posted by: Natural Newbie Dec 27 2006, 08:33 PM

http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02091yp2.jpg

The actual image is darker than that (camera was on +1 EV, just took a quick pic last night); because of the screen material I used. I used dazain polysilk, it lets alot of light through. The main reason I used that is for audio transparency. If I had a 4000 lumen projector I'm sure I could have used it ok. So I will be switching to blackout cloth, or see if I can find some high gain type cloth.

I was also having trouble getting focus on the whole screen, i eventually managed it, the placement of the mirror is critical to the half millimeter.

I never did get all the AG off my screen, so I will have some nice comparison shots of w/ag and wo/ag.

The only other problem is that I am using a vdigi to go from the xbox 360, on 1080i i can see the text shutter (is that called overscan) on 720p everything is solid.

More pics of the PJ and internals, and screenshots of the actual brightness to come!

Lastly, the triplet center and screen center are the same height, but I have to shim the front of the projector up .75". It's either because my basement floor isnt level; or something inside isnt aligned correctly. I'll fool around with the laser and see if I can figure it out.

http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02093jb1.jpg




Wish me more luck!

Posted by: bean_8044 Dec 27 2006, 09:15 PM

looks nice

Posted by: Richster Dec 27 2006, 09:19 PM

Hey NN,

I don't know if you have read about my AG traumas? You might be able to get something out of that - what you describe sounds very much like mine. I went for stripper in the end and it was dead straightforward, though not everyone has had such good experiences with it.

Good luck....

Oh BTW, great test images so far plus great taste in the beer

R

Posted by: iwantaprojector Dec 27 2006, 10:27 PM

That looks great!

What's that white stuff on the top center and white dots on the sides of the projection? Is the top a polarizer tear and the sides just light leaks? What's the dark portion of the bottom right side of the pic? Is some furniture blocking the pic or is it damaged there?

Posted by: DarkMeat Dec 27 2006, 11:07 PM

So what are the dimensions of the actual pj section not the stand that it rest on. It looks like it came out great.
I hope you sort out the ag layer thing though.

DM

Posted by: Natural Newbie Dec 28 2006, 05:51 PM

bean, thanks!

Richster, I think I have read your AG trauma story , but either way I will check it out! Mmm tasty beer, my mother bought me 20 different kinds of porters, bocks and stouts for Christmas, Old Engie Oil was my first pick last night

iwantaprojector, there is a polar tear at the top of the screen, and another small one where my leg is. They are out of the way of 16:9 format material, and yes the rest of the dots are light leaks. the dark spot is my couch arm that got in the way of the camera, but it doesnt get in the way of the projector.

Dark, the inside dimensions are 42" long, 20" wide 20"tall. and it is made of 3/4" plywood. I made it soo long so I would have enough room (barley) to go with a condenser eventually.

Thanks for the compliments and the luck on the AG!

PS, I accidentaly won another sammy wuxga on ebay, it showed up at my door today, im scared to touch it

psps, more pics will come soon, still teaking and cleaning up wires,,, and watching moveis and playing xbox ,,,, i mean err, working

Posted by: Housemachine Dec 29 2006, 12:45 PM

Wow ! This is the most impressive screen shot that I've ever seen. Light diffusion is just perfect ! Luminance, color temp and saturation is also well. Flawless job, congrats !..

Posted by: arizonavideo Dec 29 2006, 02:47 PM

Great job so far. How about some shots with bright red in them like cars or something.

Thanks
A/V

About how bright is it?

Posted by: Timm-McCoy Jan 5 2007, 07:04 AM

that thing is BEAUTIFUL!!!!!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jan 5 2007, 08:24 AM

look, now im user friendly with thumbnail images!


a picture of the cabinet the PJ sits on, this is the fan that pulls air past the lcd
http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02083di1.jpg

pic of the bottom of the PJ. lamp area has seperate cooling with 2 fans, then the LCD cooling slot, holes for wires to go in. The bottom is sealed with weather stripping.
http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02082lf8.jpg

AZ, on the old screen (DAZAIN polysilk) white was somewhat dark. Projected on my white wall white is definatly white, and brightness is good when the room is dark. I wont get a LUX meter, i beleive in seat of pants, not numbers.

Im having trouble with red from my xbox360, red from the comp is OK though, when i get my BO cloth screen finished I will post pics of red and all sorts of stuff, along with pics of the actual PJ. 1-2 more week wait!

Posted by: jonjandran Jan 5 2007, 01:57 PM

Try hooking up JUST thee Vga cord to the G2A130. Then unplug the controller power plud from the wall for a few minutes. Then plug it back in. That fixed my washed out image on the 360 w/Vga.

Posted by: lueycifer Jan 8 2007, 08:57 PM

The inside of your projector is the best one that I have seen on here. You do very good work. I cant waight to see the final photos of the projector.

Posted by: Subgenius Jan 11 2007, 03:34 AM

Yo Newbie, a shout out from Plymouth Mi.

I am in the middle of my first build so let me know if you have gear you want to get rid of.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jan 14 2007, 02:07 AM

Jon, I will try that next time I fire the PJ up, I also got one of the $10 component to VGA adapters to try.

luey, Thanks!

Sub, Plymouth, nice! I plan on having a trading post set up soon, I'll PM you when I set it up.


---------------- CURRENT PROGRESS / STATE / STUFF / UPDATE -------------

I am still trying to find a material (that is good) to use for my screen . AV is sending me a sample of his uber cheap canvas to try

I ordered a new mirror (the one GSX recomended) because the LL one has small specs that let light through

RED and BLACK levels on xbox360, will try the new cable and unplugging the G2A (next time I use the projecter)

Getting Center AND Corner focus, right now I can get one or the other. THat means elkens triplet mod may be in the works

Getting the rest of the AG of my panel, I am going to try paint stripper, Im scared

And finally, once that is done, I will take screen shots, and pictures of the projector, then you will never hear from me again because I will be using it 24/7

Posted by: Durachko Feb 2 2007, 07:34 PM

I think I just ruined my keyboard drooling over your custom LCD control button assembly. OMG! It's gorgeous.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/escross/DSC02052.JPG

This comment goes aways back but it really shouldn't matter how your lamp is wired to your ballast - hot/neutral - no polarity. I wonder why it didn't work the first way you tried?

What's your degree going to be? ME, EE, sumpin' else?

Posted by: greymalkin Feb 2 2007, 09:17 PM

that is sick! your lighting looks so even/perfect in that last video...maybe I just need to move my projector closer to the wall...168" in 4:3 is a little excessive.

Posted by: Litherish Feb 3 2007, 03:26 AM

You have a very nice camera all your screenshots of your projector parts and what not come out crystal clear! What camera are you using?

Edit- Just noticed your using a component->VGA adaptor for your Xbox 360. Does that give you 1080p?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Feb 4 2007, 02:26 AM

Thank you! I'm going for ME, but that had nothing to do with my machining or engineering skills, Only thing I've learned in school is math, and how to not speak english proporly.




Thank you, 168! thats huge, my final size in 16:9 ratio was 115, 16:10 was 120. after the triplet mod my 16:9 size will probably be like 112"



Sony DSC-W1 Cybershot, 5.1mp
most of the pics have been on auto mode, some manual

with the VDIGI 720p worked, and 1080i "worked" but the screen vibrated

with the component cables going to a simple 10dollar adapter, 1080i works perfect, but no 1080p

with the xbox vga cable GSX got 1080p to work, but mine wont last time i checked.

also be aware i am having bad black levels and red levels with the 360, take a look in the wuxga q&a thread

UPDATES!

I have decided on using painters canvas as my screen material, shots of that with all my test samples will be posted when the projector is 100% done

I have the new ebay mirror from vette4jja , i got the 1/4" thick one, it is heavy duty. A note, the lumen lab one did not let light through, but it had specs where the coating was missing. the vette4jja one lets a small amount of light through (6%, so if you hold it to a light you can see it faintly) but the coating is perfect.

Still have bad xbox washed out red black bla bla

Making prototype triplet mod rings, should be done mid next week

and RIGHT NOW, my panel has a layer of paint stripper on it!!!
http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02158fz2.jpghttp://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02157vs0.jpg

Posted by: scoodidabop Feb 5 2007, 02:34 PM

Nice metal work!

Posted by: The Frog Feb 7 2007, 01:46 PM

This is the Samsung LTN154U1-L01 lcd? What you think of this lcd LTN154U1-L01 is good for projector ?.I have this lcd for 185 USD and SHARP LQ154M1LW02 for 218 USD but on picture of this sharp is something wrong.







What you thing?

Posted by: blake Feb 7 2007, 04:10 PM

Amazing picture quality.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 8 2007, 01:12 AM

---------------- CURRENT PROGRESS / STATE / STUFF / UPDATE -------------

The final screen matarial ended up being pre-primered painters canvas. Nice and thick, works good.


RED and BLACK levels on xbox360, have been fixed for the most part. Do do this, i simply had to plug in a computer signal to the VGA port, then un plug the comp, and plug the 360 in. I loose the last 5% of my blacks and white, but at least it is saturated now.


Getting Center AND Corner focus, well I did the triplet mod, and overall focus is better and corner focus is closer but still not perfect. It will be tricky seeing computer text in the corners, but for movies and games it will be OK. This also shrunk my diag from 120" to 106".


I demolished the sammy panel, which is ashame, but i got a toshiba cheap, AG strip with water in 4 hours per side, turned out good!

Some final build pics!


http://img113.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02243wp8.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02242re4.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02241ie7.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 8 2007, 01:16 AM

Here is a shot of the back, power switch panel, ballast wind tunnel on lower left, the back box is the hot air exit for the lamp area, all the wires!

http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02249oi9.jpg

Shot of the LCD cooling vents before the cover and dust filter is on
http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02119bg3.jpg

another angle
http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02121ao2.jpg

Here is the cover for the LCD cooling slots, cover to block light and dust filter
http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02122jv9.jpg

inside of the bare box. note aluminum heat shielding where bulb chamber is

also note the small slot is for lcd cooling, large slot is for lamp area cooling
http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02152br3.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 8 2007, 01:22 AM

Here is a shot undearneath the stand. the single fan is the lcd cooling exhaust, black thing next to it is the light blocker for the lamp area intake, the bigger black thing is the lamp area exhaust. note the 12v power supply for fans

http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02155jf0.jpg

another angle of inside the box. can see the dual fans for lamp area, note the g2a has a heat sink on the genesis chip, can also see the LCD power supply and OSD board


http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02153rt5.jpg

this could go in the HT forum, but a shot of the 12" sub in the closet, along with my lack of movies and video games.

http://img113.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02245tt4.jpg


behind the PJ, can see the cord cover i made and speaker stand i made High voltage over the ballast tunnel

http://img113.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02247am5.jpg

the guts! bulb is crooked, need to re-align it (just sitting there, not screwed down. see the nice slots of LCD cooling. cords coiled so it doesnt put stress on g2a connections. can also see the focus rod going to triplet
http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02257vl9.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 8 2007, 01:29 AM

front internals. I used RC car turnbuckles for fine tuning the top of the mirror. Bottom is adjust by hand then screwed down. note elongated triplet hole (when FL got longer when i did the triplet mod)

http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02259lp6.jpg


bulb end, i used a heat shield over the wires so UV doesnt eat them. have a UV plexiglass sheet sitting in front of the fresnel
http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02260nh3.jpg

the focus adjuster nob, also note the latches to hold top on
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02253at5.jpg

another view of the undersides
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02251le4.jpg

another view of the front, note the ledge to hold the LCD board

http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02262vq1.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 8 2007, 01:31 AM

http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02261jb6.jpg

mmm shiney




next set of pictures will be it in action with screenies and a few extra samples of screen material!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 9 2007, 07:40 PM

Shot of it running, absolutely zero light leaks. I had some vertical ghosting, so i put electrical tape on entrance to the triplet, lost maybe 5% brighness, but fixed the ghosting

http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02274ik4.jpg


5th playing through oppo,dimmer in real life, pic turned out grainy, crystal clear in person, almost looks like true HD content

http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02272kv3.jpg


HD southpark on xbox live, brighness looks right here also
http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02270zi9.jpg

360 dash, slightly brigher in real life, and my proud self standing there (well, kind of have my legs bent, otherwise my nose would be level with the top of the image)
http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02269ls0.jpg

GOW, mmm, dimmer in real lifehttp://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02264zw7.jpg

overall I am very satisfied.

I am longing for that extra "pop" in the images though. I think i need more lumens. I am thinking of ditching the eballast, and going magnetic and overdriving it. any thoughts on overdriving the LL t15 lamp (az or sim, any input?)

also, pics of other screen material coming next.

EDIT: these pics were with eballast, ll65k that had a 50mm arc and no pre con

Posted by: pun15her Mar 9 2007, 09:38 PM

Nice results.
And a great build.

As a complete solution,I think it works brilliantly!
If I was doing a large pro setup and had the room,I think I would do something along these lines.
Congrats.
Cheers P

Posted by: jonjandran Mar 9 2007, 10:25 PM

I suggest getting a Da-Lite High Power screen. You can get a 120" for about $280 shipped. It's like getting 3x your lumens.

Get one and you will be totally satisfied with the "pop" and lumens.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 9 2007, 10:48 PM

Thanks pun, cheers!

Jon, i was thinking about that also. I would want just the material though, since I have my own frame and borders made. Can you get just the material? Kind of pricey too But if I can get material only I must just go with that.

I was thinking maybe go to mag ballast and overclock this bulb.

Also I could order a 330 col and mount a pre-con. only issue is i dont know if i have enough room to move my lamp back. I guess it will only be about an inch max. I have more than an inch to spare.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 10 2007, 04:49 AM

http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02278lc6.jpg

that is my light spillage. you can also see here the tap to eliminate the horizontal blurring/ghosting (or whatever it is called).

my pro refelctor is pretty much touching the t15 lamp.

Just posting that if it helps you guys help me in my brightness situation.

Posted by: Blownshift Mar 12 2007, 04:51 AM

here's a shoutout from woodhaven

looking good Natural

Posted by: SIMUL8R Mar 12 2007, 05:15 AM

Suggest you try the precondenser addition. Since your using the 220mm rear fresnel then see if you can find at least a 5" diameter x 12"fl lens. Or get one like Arizonavideo's 6" x 9"fl, he seemed to have made it work with the 220mm. I see you made your lamp vertical so the precondenser will take full advantage of the orientation of the arc as it is.

By the way, very nice build, clean and maticulous.

Posted by: arizonavideo Mar 12 2007, 07:32 AM

I covered a 17" just barely with a HQI 400 and a 6x9 condenser with a 220mm rear Fresnel. So a 6x9 will be just about touching your lamp.

You will get about 100 more lumens from the 6x9.

jonjandran has a 6x9 that he never tried perhaps he would lend you his?

I never liked the M59 coil ballast much, all the ones I have seen make a lot of noise it’s just the way there made. I would rather have an S400dd with a smaller arc and a S51 ballast and condenser lens.

There is one in the trading post now. You should get more light from the smaller arc if you use a condenser lens. If not then a M59 and a 4uf cap will give 500 watts.

I like the workmanship and the first pictures look good.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 12 2007, 09:05 PM

blownshift, woodhaven nice! Thanks for the comps.

sim, thanks for the info and the compliments.

AZ, as well thanks for the info and compliments. as you and sim mention I am going to try the 6x9 precon first. I should be ok with the 220 rear fres, especially since I have the 15.4, and not a 17.

After that If im still not satisfied i can take the m59 ballast route, or go s51 with s400dd.

Tweaking to the max, thanks guys!!!



Some more info on the triplet mod

In my case, I had about .75" pinchushioning with my unmodded pro triplet, and 117" diag.

With the modified triplet (3.62mm ring) I have about .125" pincoushioning and 106" diag. The center focus got much sharper, and the corner got better, but still not perfect.

I am thinking the corner focus is caused by my mirror. I remember another member: when the mirror was close to his triplet he had bad all around focus, and when the mirror close to the LCD he had good focus everywhere. Mine is in the middle, maybe that is the cause. Who knows.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 15 2007, 06:17 PM

Well here is the new tweaking update.


I've decided that all that wasted light from the LL bulb is rediculous, and im going to go S51 with the s400DD with the smaller arc chamber for more lux, since the s400dd arc should fit in the triplet.

Once I try that, I may get a different cap to bump it up to 450-500W if i still want more lux,

then if i still want even more lux, im buying a 6x9 condenser to play around with

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 15 2007, 09:54 PM

Information storage post: a PM between me and AZ, good info here.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 22 2007, 01:39 AM

Well i ordered an S51 and S400DD.

Wired it up. Can someone check my wiring



I also noticed there is a 1.2 ohm resistance between the common wire coming from the lamp and the 120V wire going into the ballast. Is that suppost to be like that, or should it be "open" loop.

EDIT: AVs reply

I will be placing the ballast in my "wind tunnel" with a 120mm 30cfm fan to cool the ballast.

the lamp chamber is large and has 60cfm flow. I will add an 80mm fan blowing cooler air from the intake on the lamp from a few inches away, especially when I mount the precondenser.

Also will be taking current measurements with my multimeter at normal capacitance, then with the caps activated.

Posted by: arizonavideo Mar 22 2007, 06:54 AM

Did I really use the word "make" 3 times here.

"The botom line is it is best to stay close to the power level that the ballast was made to make and make "fine" adjustment to make the lamp burn like we want."

Re worded.

It is still best to stay close to the power level that the ballast was designed to make. For a 400 watt S51 ballast that would be about 500 watts. The ballast will also make a lot more heat so adding a small fan to the ballast will keep it cool. Most of the higher color temp lamps will look better with a slight over drive.

What power level looks and works the best, we will just have to judge for ourselfs.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 27 2007, 04:20 AM

I have finished wiring "the bomb" as my friend calls it.

http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02306vo7.jpg

S51, with two extra 4uF caps wired in on switches. Will go in the "wind tunnel" to keep her cool. Also bottom is insulated with foam to keep it quiet. Just waiting on the S400DD to come in the mail now.

bought a precon off Durachko, going to fix up a mount for that soon.

Posted by: arizonavideo Mar 27 2007, 05:21 AM

A guy just had his China T15 lamp melt the outer shell at 500 watts. I would make sure the lamp is cooled well.

Did you get the 4.5x6 pirex condenser from Durachko?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 27 2007, 04:02 PM

I have a 80mm fan that I will have blowing cool air on the lamp and pre-con. Plus the 2 120mm fans exhausting the light chamber.

The precon is the the 6x~9, slightly tinted green. I;m going to stick with the 220 rear fres for now.

Posted by: arizonavideo Mar 27 2007, 04:17 PM

The green glass lens is just "heat glass" not Pyrex so there is a chance it will not take the heat. Cool the hot side well.

I have shattered three "green glass" heat sheilds so far. I have 1 green 6x9 that I have not used much yet.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 29 2007, 10:20 PM

OK, well i made a fixture to hold the precon last night. This morning I mounted it and fired up the PJ. The precon had to be touching the lamp, and the corners are still dim. I also noticed my "white" (which was slightly blue) is now not as white, possibly because of the green tint of the lense. EDIT: it was actually dirty yellowish. abberations?

Overall brightness looked to be about the same (with my eye, and by my camera used on the same manual setting as previous setups) I was hoping at least the center-ish would be brighter.

Light spillage was slightly more.

I had a feeling this would be a problem, because DAZ' calculator said I would need the plano like 9mm away from the arc, and touching the lamp is 23.

So a 317 or 330 rear fresnel would fix this, and allow the condenser to move away from the lamp a bit. EDIT: or i was thinking a 6x12 condenser, as it would fit in my current fixture, and allow a larger cone (no dim corners) to "exit" the condenser, and allow me to move it away from the lamp. correct? I read that uber huge condenser thread, i should have taken notes, I forgot everyhing I learned.

Should give me more brightness right?


Still waiting on the S400DD to arrive.

I have a feeling my LCD transmissiveness is like 3% I just want more brightness!!!! EEEEK!

Posted by: Durachko Mar 30 2007, 12:22 PM

Sorry that lens didn't work out very well. Want a refund or will you just go without a couple of dollar menu items from McD's next junk food trip? We all want Supra's panel. I can understand why your friends call it "the bomb".

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 30 2007, 04:52 PM

Lens was worth a shot, thanks for the good deal on it! As of now im really waiting for my lamp to arrive. i cant wait to break it in, then thit my two switches and watch that baby get brighter!

reflector centered
http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02309eg6.jpg

reflector offset
http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02310tg9.jpg

reflector offset w/6x9 precon
http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02312xl5.jpg

precon mount, see where mogul fits in slot
http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02313mp6.jpg

precon mount
http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02314oa4.jpg

Posted by: arizonavideo Mar 30 2007, 06:13 PM

Is the arc centered in the lamp shell? You might be able to rotate the lamp to place the arc a little closer.

You are so close to covering the rear Fresnel. Can you move the lamp/condenser back at all?

If you are projecting on a small screen for testing the triplet will be a lot further from the LCD making you place the lamp/condenser a little closer than for a larger screen. Is the screen to triplet distance the same as your final setup will be?

Do you have a split setup or un-split?

What’s the front Fresnel FL?

Is the lamp really touching the condenser?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 30 2007, 08:15 PM

I don't know if the lamp is centered in the shell, didn't think of that! I will check this weekend. Only problem I can see is the rod might get in the way, the nipple is in the back of the arc chamber now (and I can see it on the screen) so it may be advantageous to rotate it.

I know its so close it was driving me nuts! I have full adjustability in my light chamber. And I was playing around moving everything around. If I move it back further I get a very dirty yellow screen from the abberations (or whatever they are called). If i move it forward I get blue on the outside and even a blue spot in the middle? So that is the sweet spot, which also has the largest coverage, minus the corners.

Screen to triplet will not change, if i remember correctly it was 170ish inches. I modded my pro triplet which changed it to a longer FL, and i dont have current numbers of triplet to LCD, i will get that this weekend.

unsplit setup, LL 220 collimator and LL 650 (actual 600 from what I heard) field. 15mm apart, 25mm from field to LCD

Lamp and condener were touching

Only thing I can think of is maybe the FL on this condener is almost 9" I need to double check to FL on the condenser this weekend as well.

Hmm, ive been pondering and doing ray traces in my head thinking about this

Posted by: arizonavideo Mar 31 2007, 12:14 AM

Have you re checked the FL of the condenser?

If I remember correctly you can increase the gap between the two Fresnels and give a slightly longer FL.

By moding the pro lens you made the fl longer and moved the lamp closer to the LCD by maybe 25mm or so.

Do you need it moded for the 15.4?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 31 2007, 12:33 AM

I have to check the FL of the condenser still, I was reading in durachkos thread it was between 8 and 9 (big tolerance i know). Tonight maybe ill get a chance. After I verify the FL, ill play around in the calculator some more.

I guess since we dont have a perfect light source, the light isnt perfectly collimated leaving the collimator, so increasing the gap, yea, would increas the FL of the rear fres.

I may have moved the lamp closer. I modded the pro lense and took apart the PJ, and never marked where things were

I had 3/4" pinch on top and bottom with it un-modded, I could see it plainly. With it modded it is pretty much a hair over 1/8" pinch. Does this mean the mod hurt me for brightness? I figured it would of helped, since the cone from the field fresnel would be smaller in the triplet, since it is further from the LCD now.

Posted by: arizonavideo Mar 31 2007, 05:16 AM

The pro lens mod makes the fl longer which might be good for most people who might want more throw but the longer the front fl the larger the arc image becomes so it is harder to make it fit in the triplet.

This is why the triplet is so big allready. If the fl was 250mm it could be 50mm round and be just as bright.

In your case I just want to see you get your light pattern cleaned up. The longer front FL will move the lamp slightly closer and this could be the differance right there.

The screen should be nice and bright even set like you have it right?

You might have to go to a 6x12 condenser or a 330mm fresnel.

GS is going to try the 550mm and a 220 with the pro lens to get a little shorter rear fl with the CDM150 but he said the first time it did not work that well.

In my setup my light box made my condenser too close so I went from the 600mm to the 550mm and it gave me a few MM but I still had to trim the box to get things right.

A 330mm is not the end of the world but it just cost some light.

How is the lamp doing overdriven? Is the arc stable?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Mar 31 2007, 07:11 AM

Longer FL triplet makes the arc larger? I need to study this. i thought it would move it further from the LCD (and front fresnel) so the cone would be smaller at the triplet, letting more light in. im confused on this part.

The camera obviosly exaggerates the un-eveness, its not that bad in person. But yes, the more even the better and I woudl like that. I dont think I can change the front FL, unless i get a new front fres, and possibly a 22" beseler. But I want to stick with the pro and LL 650 fres, since i already have it.

This would mean, as you said, try a 6x12, or use the 6x9 and go 330 rear fres.

When you say the screen should be nice and bright and even like i have it, your saying with my current setup I should be able to acheive this, correct?

I will have to see what GS comes up with. Between you, GS, SIM, DAZ, elken , Dur and others, I have been suckin in info like a sponge!

YOu say your light box was restricting you, that is one thing with my huge box, i have room for anything pretty much.

by doing calculations it looks like a 330 with the correct precon, should give me better eveness, and some more brightness then my current setup (as accomplished before by other members)

ANd sadly, I am still running the eballast with the LL 65K. My S400DD has not arrived yet.

So as of now, then my S400DD arrives I will break it in, then see how I like it overclocked with the pro reflector and 220 rear fres only. After that If i still want more, I will try my 6x9 again. If that doesnt work I will try a 6x12. And if that still doesnt work I will try the 6x9 with a 330 rear fres (which will be some work, but worth it if it works) and if that STILL doesnt work, who knows, maybe a full new fres set and beseller. But I doubt I will go that far.

Posted by: arizonavideo Mar 31 2007, 11:32 PM

I have a green glass 6x9 condenser lens too. It should be just like yours. I rechecked the fl and it is 6x8 not 6x9!

This inch is what is killing you.

The good news is a 330mm/6x8 is a little brighter and will be way easier to set up than a 6/9 220mm system.

The vingeting will be better with the 330mm setup too. I think you will like this better in the long run. This also spaces the condenser lens a little further from the lamp so it will be a lot less likely to crack. Around 20mm.

Do you have a 330mm fresnel?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 1 2007, 09:00 PM

I had a 60W incandesent lamp 24 feet away from the wall I was focusing the image (GE 60 watt letters) on with the pre-con; plano side to the wall, convex to the lamp. 214mm or about 8.42" from wall the plano. Is that an acceptable method?

I dont have a 300mm fresnel. I am currently looking for one, this would be nice anyways, since my LL 220mm shipped with a large scuff on it...

Another question. Will the green tint in the precon change the color on my screen at all?

Posted by: arizonavideo Apr 1 2007, 09:50 PM

You need to choke down the lens to be able to find the exact fl.

Cut a 1" round hole in a piece of cardboard and place it over the lens leaving the whole in the center. This will allow you to be able to focus to a sharp point.

I focus on the house across the street out the window onto the wall in my house.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 1 2007, 11:30 PM

Doing the house across the street with a 1" hold, I got 210mm or 8.26" from wall to plano.

EDIT



since the house across the street is far away, do can be infinity, and di is equal to f

Posted by: arizonavideo Apr 1 2007, 11:44 PM

The Pyrex 6x9 mesures just slightly longer than 9" fl ( I think, it has been a long time.)

The 8.26 is just a little too short.

I think you will like the 500 watt/330mm 6x8 setup.

Did you say you have a 330mm fresnel?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 1 2007, 11:55 PM

No i dont have a 330mm. also, Will the green condesner affect my whites?

Posted by: arizonavideo Apr 2 2007, 07:00 AM

It shouldn't and even if it did you could just re-set the LCD RGB green from 100 to 98.

With the new lamp you will have to reset the gray scale anyhow. I don't know if it is best to do the burn in at 400 watts or 450 or 500?

how about 450?

I have an old beat 330mm if you want to try it but I don't think it is worth shipping, it should cover.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 3 2007, 12:04 AM

Cool, im glad the green wont affect it much.

My lamp should be here tomorro according to lightbulbemporium. You recommend burn in at 450, then I will do that

As for the 330mm, I'm going to want a fresh one so I dont have any smudges on my bright colors. I may buy from 3dlens, and watch the trading post for one that is in good shape and big enough in size.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 4 2007, 06:56 PM

Ushio S400DD finally arrived. The box had a huge fragile sticker on it, yet still looked like it got ran over by the DHL truck it came in...

Luckily the lamp was in one piece. The arc chamber isnt exactly centered however; dont know if it was produced like this, or a jolt bent it.

http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02323pq9.jpg

The s400dd arc chamber is about 25mm, the electrodes look to be slightly further apart. And never measuring my LL65k, it turns out the arc chamber is 50mm!!!! and the electrodes are slighly further apart!!!!

So tonight I am re-adjusting my lamp fixture for the ushio then breakin' er in.

Some side notes.

The reflective coating on the outer rim of my pro refector is starting to flake off

I need to loosen my fresnel hold downs, they are slightly warped (at the top only) and not able to move because they are too tight

Posted by: arizonavideo Apr 4 2007, 09:29 PM

It really does look a little bent.

From now on we will have to call you the bent one

I don't think you will see that in the final light pattern.

Do you have welding goggles?

One problem some people have had with the S400DD is arc wander. It is fairly easy to see but looking at a bare arc tube when running is a bad idea.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 4 2007, 09:33 PM

Oh jeez, im getting nicknames now

Welding mask, I was born wearing one

Tonight, 450 watt break in

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 5 2007, 05:41 AM

Here maybe this will give you another idea for a nickname!

http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02328to3.jpg

s400dd fired on first strike. And with only 20 mins (at 400 watts) on it, it is brighter than the LL65K !! !!!!!!!!!!

after it warms up, im going 450, then after i stay up all night lettin her break in, its goin 500 tomorro.

i have a 80mm fan blowing somewhat fresh air directly on the lamp. ballast is decently quiet, i can hear a faint buzz if im closer than a foot.


EDIT: after 30 mins red and green are better than the 65k. Blue is lacking, im sure it will come in as the burn in continues!

Posted by: Durachko Apr 5 2007, 01:02 PM

Darth Newbie? Bet yo Momma wuz none too happy 'bout dat!!!
Newbies got more lumies, Newbies got more lumies.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 5 2007, 08:36 PM

Well i camped out next to the PJ with a fire extinguisher last night, can never be too safe!

1 hour burn at 400w , then switched to 450 for 10 hours, then 500w for 1 hour. 500w is a decent amount brigher! Even without a precon I am happy with the results. Red and green are strong, blue is still getting better, but still needs more saturation.

I still have my reflector offset, and I am getting bad glowies and ghosting, so tonight I am going to center the reflector and see if that fixes it.

All is well with newbies lumies!

EDIT: Forgot to add: arc has been perfectly stable so far.

Posted by: arizonavideo Apr 5 2007, 10:14 PM

The T15 LL lamp has been known to be a nice bright lamp. I wounder if yours was defective. Some lamps just don't put out as much light.


You should still think about a condenser in the long run. A 330mm fresnel with a 6x8 condenser will be brighter and more even.

All the lamps that I have seen change color a fair amount in the first 20 hours or so. The green will get a lot less and the blue will lighthen up some.

I'm glad the arc is stable.

The pro reflector will need cooling too. It has been known to burn out fast. I think some of the other reflectors that are fore sale might be better for a high power setup.

Do you have a LUX meter?

Posted by: jonjandran Apr 5 2007, 10:49 PM

Well the T15 PS lamp is a nice bright lamp. But the T15 LL65k lamp that I used had less lumens than the standard Ushio
S400DD.

Posted by: arizonavideo Apr 5 2007, 11:58 PM

Then why did they change? The S400DD is chepper too?

Posted by: BIMPtacular Apr 6 2007, 12:34 AM

i want to see some screens, i think i want to go with this bulb too, i think it is time for an upgrade............great work on the pj, ill trade you whenever you get ready

BIMP

Posted by: jonjandran Apr 6 2007, 02:43 AM

Well as I understand it , they started with the Ushio S400DD. But some thought it was to green and lacked lumens. Then there was the problem with the Ushio S400DD being changed by Ushio and getting an inch longer and a different arc position. So then they went with the T15 PS which was a lot brighter, but some thought it was to red. So then they went with th LL65K because it was supposed to have a better color CRI, etc. But it's not as bright as the PS.

I think that's the way it all happened.

Posted by: diy-theater Apr 6 2007, 02:49 AM

Hey Newbie, Congrats on your success with the ushio.I have ben following your progress for a while now "with great anticipation" .Can you post a link to where you purchased your cap's and switches? I recently replaced my polarizers and need to squeeze more lumen's out of my ushio to make up for the loss from the SHC polarizers. I can't wait to hear how the pre con works out for you. Every green lens i put near my lamp has suffered catastrophic failure with in 20 minutes. Keep that lens cool. I was under the impression that green glass was standard plate glass and cannot withstand the heat our lamps produce.

Great job on your beamer by the way!!!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 6 2007, 06:26 AM

I think it was an issue of much wasted light. I will get a pic of light spillage for comparison.

After I watch at least one movie I will start tweaking again. 330 and precon is definatly in the future.

I have a fan blowing on the lamp reflector, it isnt getting 100% fresh air tho, but it is near the air inlet. This may need re-working.

No lux meter yet



s400DD is nice, you will like it. All i had time for is this, GF is hogging the PJ right now playing viva , colors are nice , trade, only if you pay shipping, its HEAVY

This is pretty close, only difference I see on my monitor is the white is a touch cooler in temp, and maybe 5% brighter. I really need to take a lot of pics and compare to find the most realistic setting.
http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02330ej7.jpg



Caps are from mcmaster.com , they are listed as AC motor caps
Switcher are heavy duty 20amp light switches from home depot
also make sure you get good wiring. All my added wires are 600V 14 guage (probably overkill) (also note the ballast and ignitor wires are whatever they came with)

Lens isnt in there right now, just lamp, reflector and badly warped 220mm collimator (i need to loosen my fresnel holdown clamps)

Thanks for the compliments all!

Posted by: BIMPtacular Apr 6 2007, 11:58 AM

those colors look nice........good and bright and very even...i definately need one of those bulbs!!!11!1!!1oneone!!...what wattage is that at?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 6 2007, 06:03 PM

I have not measured, but AV predicts with my two extra 4uF caps, 500W

Each cap adds a notiecable amount of brightness. Nothing to blow your face off, but a nice increase

Posted by: arizonavideo Apr 6 2007, 06:13 PM

The return of the S400DD!

Is the PJ on high, med, low?

There will be some color shift for each power level so you will have to set your gray scale for the one power level that you use the most. It is cool having the different power settings.

You did buy heavy duty switches but it is the nature of what happens when you switch across a cap that the contacts will spark each time. If you flip from low the high many, many times with the power on, which you can do, the switch will burn out fairly fast.

I flip mine to low for a little bit before I turn it off to let it cool down more slowly. I have no idea if this will help the lamp live longer or not. I also start my PJ on low but not for long just the first minuets or so then flip to high

Is it brighter than the old lamp? A lot or just a little?

For a early screen shot it looks great.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 6 2007, 08:05 PM

That was on high, and thats what I have the greyscale and colors set for.

Like you, i start it low, then a minute later go to high. then before shutting down let it run on low for about 5 mins. The switches were 4 bucks a piece at HD, so if they crap out im not too worried. Eventually I may just leave it on high.

It is ALOT brighter than the old lamp. Before the whites were like, ok, thats white, but.... its not bright....

Now its like, THAT IS WHITE *squinting*

Posted by: arizonavideo Apr 7 2007, 06:00 AM

I'm kina glad you now have to ware sunglasses to watch movies.

When you get time, kick out some more screen shots.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 9 2007, 03:08 AM

eballast LL65 k
http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02309eg6.jpg

Venture S51 S400DD stock (55uF total cap)
http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02336bx1.jpg

Venture S51 S400DD (59uF total cap)
http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02337fp3.jpg

Venture S51 S400DD (63uF total cap)
http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02338be7.jpg

Pics of nemo, shark tale, 5th and others to come soon! Picked up a used xbox 360 HD DVD drive, WOW is all I have to say about that.

Posted by: NinHowFritz Apr 9 2007, 03:21 AM

Wow, very big difference!

Posted by: BIMPtacular Apr 9 2007, 03:42 AM

i would say that is quite a difference.......how long did you run the bulb like that, and everything went well i assume???

BIMP

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 9 2007, 05:22 PM

Yes, the camera exaggerates the difference, but it is still there.

Posted by: arizonavideo Apr 10 2007, 02:24 AM

The light pattern is very even. There is just a slight dip in the lower right. I can see the white panels on the roof lighting up too. The contrast freaks would pant them a dark color.


My main concern is if the color of the lamp gets a lot better with the over drive. All the normal MH lamps make crappie red; it's always like a dark orange. This is why all the Nemo shots look so good because he is orange!

The over drive means higher pressure and temps and current and the red should get better too.

I would like to see some screen with both orange and deep red in them.

If the orange is still blown out and the red not pure then there has not been much of an improvement. If the red is deep and the orange restrained then I would call the over drive a great successes.

The lumens will be higher too but I will wait for the 330mm/6x9 setup.

We want SCREENS!

Posted by: ChristmasGT Apr 10 2007, 08:03 PM

I love my S400DD, thats what I used in my build and what i'm going to continue to use in my WUXGA build.

I NEED TO BEAT ZELDA, AND WANNA DO IT ON THE PROJECTOR.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 12 2007, 06:09 AM

I like photography, im not good at photography, especially of projections! I am so frustrated!

I spend about an hour settin up this pic, and it is still not perfect...
http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02350el9.jpg
only to realize, that it was ONLY set up for that pic. Any color or brightness change made everything out of whack.

But I am very good at describing.

The blue the lamp makes as of 50 hours is still not saturated enough. It is bright, but not "blue" enough (looks as if someone diluted it with white paint... maybe possibly because of the red and green explosion the lamp makes)

So, when setting my contrast levels and my color temp, i had to lower red and green on my LCD control.

Color temp is neutral now.
a
Dark scenes look great, bright scenes (when the sun is out) is still lacking that realistic day time pop (because overall brightness isnt insane). Bright scenes still look dam good though,, and way better then the LL 65K lamp.

Red is saturated and bright along with green, and the panel still displays orange correctly. With a computer on DVI connection I can get full contrast from about 2-3% all the way to 100%

I still have some glowies, in a bowtie shape, left to right; also the slivers at the top and bottom of the screen. and a dark spot at the bottom of my projection in a semi circular shape above the bottom glowie (due to the top of my rear fresnel warpage)

So, overall it is dam good. Just need the lamp to pump out some blue, and a condenser and rear fres setup for a few extra lumens.


here is a picture of my frustration after trying to play photo man. (3 60w lights on)

http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02370vv8.jpg

Also a note, pictures i posted in previous posts were either too bright or too dim. So im done posting pictures, if you want to see it come to my house and ill give ya a beer

These help in your RGB adjustments

http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rerejb5.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rerewjh8.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rerebqf0.jpg

Along with nokia monitor test

Posted by: arizonavideo Apr 13 2007, 03:04 AM

You said
"The blue the lamp makes as of 50 hours is still not saturated enough. It is bright, but not "blue" enough (looks as if someone diluted it with white paint... maybe possibly because of the red and green explosion the lamp makes)"

The blur range has been a problem for many MH lamps too. One of the guys on Elkins thread was saying his HQI made weak blue.

The blue color is what burns away as the lamp ages and this makes the color more green/red which is a lower color temp. Old MH and even CFL's look yellow.

I would not expect the blue to get much better although the lamp still has some burn in to do.

I grabbed the spectral graphs of the S400DD and the OSRAM HQI 250.





It looks like you would want your blue spectral lines to be around 475nm. This is not exactly where the S400DD or the HQI makes most of the blue range.

This is a short arc HMI type lamp.



The blue range is better, the whole spectrum is a lot flatter and this makes the lamp less efficient. There is no free lunch here either.

Is that a painted screen?

I still like the idea of adding a good dab of dark blue pigment to the white paint to make the screen give gain in the range that you want. There is no free lunch here either. The blue pigment will block some of the light of the other colors so the screen will be slightly dimmer but the blue will POP of the screen allowing you to lower the B in the RGB( or raise the red) and thus lowering the not wanted 400nm purple/ blue color.

I would only do this to one color on the screen. Pick the color that needs the most correction and add it to the paint.

Maybe just a dab of deep red too.

Your screens look good so far.

I love making peolpe do more work Is the blue better if you re ballance for the 450 watt setting?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 14 2007, 12:03 AM

The screen is painters canvas, it came pre primered in white

i dont think im going to be painting my screen, too messy for me.

I have not run it at 450 other than the break in. Im a brightness hog, always gotta have more. I will test that eventually. Right now my RGB is at 224 220 255 , and color temp looks pretty neutral to me. With everything at 255 it is definatly a warmer color temp.

Posted by: arizonavideo Apr 14 2007, 03:34 AM

I think the screens shots look pretty darn good it's just that you said that the blue is not making you totally happy. I can't make any kind of judgment from screens so I trust what people say about how the image looks.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 20 2007, 11:56 PM

Just some random info here.

LCD to mirror ~345mm
mirror to modified pro triplet ~260
Total LCD to triplet face~ 605mm (to center would be 635)

Field(LL650, actual 600ish?) to LCD 26mm

collimator to field 15mm

lamp to collimator(LL220) ~225mm

Still enjoying. Happy Feet tonight in HD!

im going to order a 330 collimator from 3d lens soon, to pair up with my 6x8.somthing precondenser. a 550 feild would be to short of a FL for my setup correct?

Posted by: arizonavideo Apr 21 2007, 12:08 AM

I used a 550mm and a 600mm for the feild with the 450mm triplet. The box was a little short when I had the 600mm feild and I needed a shorter rear FL but all we have is a 330 or 220mm and a 220mm was a no go because of the heat.

I had thought the 50mm differance in the two fresnels would show up on the other end but it didn't work that way. The lamp will move only 10mm or so closer.

I have not seen any pro lens and a 550 that I can think of.

So do you have any more screens?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 21 2007, 12:23 AM

Haha, no more screens, yet...

Well i am definatly getting a 330 collimator, because it will work well with my 6x8.26 condenser.

And my LL650 field fresnel has scuffs on it, so I want a new one. And am wondering if the 550 will work, because then I could get both my lenses from 3dlens.

3d lens has a 550 field fresnel, but with that the focal point of the fresnel would be before my triplet (stock triplet might be OK). ChristmastGT i think is using a 550 and the pro lens. I posted in his plog to see.

Rule of thumb is the FL of the field fresnel should be longer (within reason) than the triplet right?

I need to take my triplet out and see what the new FL is.

Posted by: arizonavideo Apr 21 2007, 03:08 AM

Yes the field should be a little longer. The pro Fresnel is a little extra long but a 330mm is not any longer than a 327mm triplet.

Both should work with no real problems but it is some what new idea. It might be slightly brighter with the 550 giving a slightly shorter over all FL.

The 550 can be placed slightly closer to the LCD because the Fresnel rings are finer.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 21 2007, 05:40 PM

Maybe ill try the 330 precon 550 combo, trying it is the only way to tell right? I dont think ill go any closer to the lcd. I have nice airflow and dont want to restrict it.

Is this how it would work (bad drawing i know), as in it would still catch all the light.

Also for more reference, I cant remember where you asked AV, but the color temp of the lamp does change with power level, but it is not instantaneous. I think it is related to arc chamber temp. If i turn it to low, it takes a while to cool, also taking a while for the color temp to rise. Also note the temp shift is small, barely noticeable.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 26 2007, 09:54 AM

s400dd
http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02372rr2.jpg

ll65k
http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02278lc6.jpg

Bad comparison, s400 is with the xbox dashboard, and the ll65 is with a blank screen, but, you get the idea. smaller arc, less spillage.

Posted by: Durachko Apr 26 2007, 12:47 PM

NN: You're using a round iris in addition to the tape to chop off the arc image ends? Does that sharpen up your projection significantly or what?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 26 2007, 05:06 PM

If I dont use the tape, I get glowies vertically. There is no iris, that hole is larger than the triplet diameter.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 26 2007, 11:54 PM

Link to the pdf file of the venture s51 ballast

http://www.venturelighting.com/VLPS/BallastDataSheets/HPS/V90D1912.pdf

im thinking of bumping up to +12 uF on the capacitor, and adding more cooling to the lamp.

but first I want to try the 330 w 6x8 precon, then maybe see if the 550 front helps, then maybe more power.

Posted by: arizonavideo Apr 30 2007, 04:18 AM

No Fear!!

Posted by: Durachko Apr 30 2007, 12:48 PM

Runaway tractor?

Posted by: scoodidabop Apr 30 2007, 05:07 PM

Hey buddy. Which capacitor is it you're using? I'm at mcmaster, and I can't seem to find the right one. The one's listed under 120v all have uf ratings starting at 53.

Also, where do you wire those bad boys in?

Posted by: scoodidabop Apr 30 2007, 05:16 PM

Wait....

Just found your wiring diagram. So the 2 capacitors are wired in after included capacitor? Igniter, caps, ballast, bulb?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Apr 30 2007, 10:06 PM

The caps were 370v (i think) "motor running" capacitors.

When wiring, the extra two are in paralell with the original cap. Meaning all the (-)'s touch each other, and all the (+)'s touch each other.

Still waiting on my 330 and 550 fresnels to come in the mail.



Another note, I am seeing how badly my white ceiling and walls is hurting my contrast ratio. Im going to look for that movie theater, ruffly fabric, grey colored stuff.

Posted by: Natural Newbie May 2 2007, 05:57 PM

Fresnels came, going to work on installing the them this weekend hopefully.

I have a bk toolkit multimeter, and I did some measuring.

Eballast and LL6.5K, after 30 mins or so

122.9v x 3.37A = 414.51W

Venture S51 and S400DD

121v for all

Normal 10 mins, 4.05A => 490W
+8 uf 10 mins, 5.11A => 618W

Normal 2 hours, 5.45A => 659W
+8 uf 2 hours, 6.67A => 807W

I find the past four readings hard to believe. I know the efficiency might drop a bit, as it gets warm, but not that much.

Posted by: arizonavideo May 2 2007, 10:45 PM

You might want to check the input and output power. The lamp voltage may go up over time and cause the ballast to transfer more power.


Do you have a fan on both the lamp and ballast?

The normal two hour reading is way high, did you leave the amp meter in line for two hours?

How did you messure the current?

The 270 BK I looked at did not say how long you can take a high current reading but all the hand held meters I have have seen are around 30 seconds at 10A. Most hand helds meters will over heat big time when reading over 1 amp for a long time.

I guess you may have over heated your BK and the readings were off. There might be some of that buring smell too.

Posted by: Natural Newbie May 3 2007, 05:19 PM

Forced air on lamp and ballast.

I just left the meter inline, no burning smell though. I need to make a switch like you are talking about.

Posted by: Martyman May 3 2007, 07:40 PM

That's a genius idea! I'm gonna go up in the attic and pull out my old box of rc car parts. Wish me luck fending off the animals up there. (Anyone know a good way to get larger animals out of my walls and attic?)

Posted by: arizonavideo May 4 2007, 03:19 AM

In the fine print the meter will say what the max time you can take a current reading.

A bypass swtich for the amp readings is a good idea.

Watch out for the lamp starter when reading the voltage. Connect the meter after start up. (Yes the leads will be HOT.)

Posted by: OverSoul May 4 2007, 06:19 PM

Just go up the food chain a bit... if mice are your problem, get snakes, then mongoose....

Posted by: Durachko May 4 2007, 06:35 PM

Anyone know where I can get a mongoose?

Edit: Oh, and what'd get rid of my bears?

Posted by: Lothar May 4 2007, 07:26 PM

Elephants might work...

Posted by: Natural Newbie May 5 2007, 06:10 PM

the one on the top might work

Posted by: freefall May 6 2007, 05:36 AM

45 long colt?

Posted by: NinHowFritz May 6 2007, 05:42 AM

Woah - I glanced at that picture, and had to see wtf you were talking about!!

Posted by: Natural Newbie May 6 2007, 05:55 AM

Top one is a S&W 500

.50 calibre bullet, large casing. Pretty much the biggest pistol you can buy, the picture does no justice of how massive it really is.

Posted by: BIMPtacular May 6 2007, 01:32 PM

i thought it was a 460 mag

Posted by: freefall May 6 2007, 11:19 PM

I have 3 flavors of Desert Eagles myself. 50ae,440 corbon and 41 mag

Posted by: samsagaz May 7 2007, 03:52 AM

i see that you using Caps to increase the power, how you do that? i have an simple Philips Lamp, with ballast , is possible to do it with my lamp? i want to gain a few lumens

Posted by: Durachko May 7 2007, 02:26 PM

That hog leg really stretches the meaning of the word "handgun".

Posted by: arizonavideo May 7 2007, 05:05 PM

The wrist smashers are only fun for the first ten rounds or so after that, the 357 start to look like a lot more fun.

Posted by: Natural Newbie May 7 2007, 06:13 PM

Wrist smasher, hehe, good description. I dont own one, but ive fired one, 5 rounds is enough for me.

samsagaz, im not sure how things work with your ballast. try researching in the overclocking thread.

Posted by: Natural Newbie May 9 2007, 04:27 AM

FOR ANYONE WITH THE G2A 130

NO NOT HIT AUTO COLOR BALANCE WHEN USING COMPONENT TO VGA INPUT WITH XBOX 360

It pretty much takes the brightness level down to zero, very very very dark. I tried a factory reset and nothing. computer VGA signal looks OK. I have it unplugged right now, going to wait 20 mins and see what happens.

Posted by: Natural Newbie May 15 2007, 11:43 PM

OK, above should say "do not hit"

Anyway, dobie has been helpful on the phone, it looks like I will be sending it in for repair/replacement.

While doin some research, I found this 47" 1080 display, from toshiba

Look at the manual, looks like that display is using a G2a board, pretty neat!

http://www.toshibadisplays.com/Downloads/P47LHA%20owners%20manu-2006.5.29.pdf

Posted by: scoodidabop May 24 2007, 01:13 PM

Yo Krauos!

Was the AG on the Toshiba an easy strip? What did you use to strip? Distilled water?

Also, my smallest screwdriver doesn't even come close to getting a bite on those screws... where'd you get yours, Keebler elves?

Posted by: Natural Newbie May 24 2007, 09:34 PM

ON the TOSH i used distilled water, about 5 hours soak, AG on both sides. Came off like a wet bandaid!

I got my screwdrivers at radio shack, just some el cheapo electronics micro screwdriver kit.

Posted by: scoodidabop May 25 2007, 05:32 AM

Sweetness. I'm stoked about the easy AG removal on the Toshiba.

Thanks man

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 2 2007, 12:53 AM

Well i shipped my G2A 130 back today for repair, my PJ is officially down

On a good note, this will allow me time to implement my precondenser and install my 330mm rear fresnel. I am also putting in a cooling tube so cold air from the room will blow directly on the lamp/precon.

My next concern is, replace my scuffed LL 650mm field fresnel with the 3dlens 550 and stay with unsplit setup, or use the 550 and try a split setup hoping for better black even-ness and corner focus????

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 7 2007, 01:03 AM

Progress!

My refurbished G2a should be on the way!

The cold air intake to cool the lamp is done.

I also added a vent fan for the front of the PJ, standing air temp in there was up to 90 F.

Added a fan to blow on G2a processer, I think it may have overheated.

I had 8 uF total over capacitance on the ballast, im bumping it up to 11.5 uf !!!!!!!!!!!!!! with the extra cooling i think the lamp will be able to take it. I noticed that the wattage doesnt really effect the color temperature of the lamp, but the actual temperature of the arc chamber does. So with enough cooling, large overdrive can be possible while keeping a "cooler" color temperature.

I am taking the plunge and putting the 550 fresnel in the front as well.

The frames will need to be modifed, that is the next thing on my list.

What else? oh yea

I ordered the racing wheel for xbox 360. it doesnt center though, so I will probably be taking that apart and adjusting the POT, maybe adding a wheel bearing to the shaft so the wheel doesnt wobble also. Then I will be making a "cockpit" with a go kart seat and a buttkicker tactile transducer!

I have samples of velvted from dasain fabrics, so I can convert my HT room to a bat cave. I want my contrast ratio !

ill post pics of the progress in a few days, I also have some temperature date im going to post.

Posted by: arizonavideo Jun 7 2007, 06:12 AM

Well the lamps only cost about $40.00 anyhow......

I have found that after warm up that the color shift was instant with a power change, there could be a color shift from the heat too but it would take a little time and might be hard to see. You should have some color temp to spare but it may be a little lower.

I am looking foward to some more screens.

May your arc remain stable.

Posted by: Durachko Jun 7 2007, 12:28 PM

Oh wow, man!
Wait a second man. whaddaya think the pictures gonna look like this time?
My butt, man !
N-n-nubie stop that screaming, nubie dont you see ?
Dont wanna be no Infocus fool.
Maybe I should go to hell, but Im doin well,
Nubie needs to see me after school.

I think of all the contrast goodness that I missed.
But then my screenies were never quite like this.
Noobs got it bad, got it bad, got it bad,
He's hot for contrast.
He got it bad, so bad,
He's hot for contrast.

Hey, I heard you missed us, were back !
I brought my precon
Gimme something to project on, man
I heard about your lamp arc, but it was so damn cold.
I know about this overdrive.
Little cap from Newark website, how did you get so bold ?
How did you know that V=I/R?

Oh man, I think the CPU is slow
I dont feel happy
Post processing

It was a toss-up between this and "I Want My MTV" blasphemy.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 9 2007, 06:57 PM

Haha, thats classic!

And my plog is complete now, all it needed was a LL remix song

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 11 2007, 04:16 AM

OK, some temp readings, all in *F (this is before the extra cooling added)

Ambient room temp 66*

Ballast core 127*
Ballast core with +8uF 144*

G2A genesis chip 120*

Triplet area of projector 95*

Above rear fresnel 120*

Air temp below LCD 83*
Air temp below LCD with +8uf 86*

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 11 2007, 04:39 AM

Here you can see the fan on the wall of the PJ, going to blow air across face of LCD. The fan on the right to suck hot air out of the front of the PJ, and the three new small holes with filters to let clean air in. Also on the very left the new large hole for the fan "lamp cold air intake"
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02389lc6.jpg

The lamp cold air intake setup, with the precon mounted
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02392co2.jpg

In the PJ
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02394vu2.jpg

Black velvet to seal around the triplet.
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02395vx8.jpg

Posted by: NinHowFritz Jun 11 2007, 04:41 AM

NN, of all the 15.4 LCDs you've seen, which do you think is the best in PQ? If possible, could you compare in terms of contrast and brightness? Color quality matters a little but not as much as contrast.

Thanks!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 11 2007, 04:50 AM

I have only used the samsung and the toshiba. I think the tosh has more even black, better contrast, seems to have a better color filter (better colors) and its the most inexpensive off ebay and the easiest to to strip! I vote for the tosh.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 12 2007, 06:47 AM

Well my new g2a 130 arrived, dobie warrantied it, all i had to pay for was shipping to him! great service!!!

All that is left to do to the PJ is modify my fresnel frames for the 3dlens fresnels,

i finally ordered a lux meter off ebay, 35 bucks, not bed i suppose.

Posted by: NinHowFritz Jun 12 2007, 08:48 AM

Hey Newbie,

I am wondering, where did you get that Toshiba for $130?? I've been looking all over ebay, but can't seem to find that good of a deal, let alone finding any Toshiba panels at all.... Can you post the sellers ebay name or a link to one of their auctions (if they are still selling panels)?

Thanks!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 13 2007, 12:01 AM

I got it off ebay. I forgot who I bought it from though. sorry

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 21 2007, 06:40 PM

Should be back up and running tonight. All i have left to do is tape up some foam to seal the LCD air flow cooling, then fire it up and adjust my lamp, precon and reflector positioning (which takes a while).

Some data with the new lux meter.

Did the sun light transmissivity test.

sun has 103800 lux

after toshiba wuxga(AG removed both sides) LCD 7230 lux

7230/103800= 0.0696

So about 7% transmissive

I also did the test with the samsung wuxga (AG and reflective removed both sides), it was the same 7% transmissive.

Posted by: Durachko Jun 21 2007, 07:24 PM

Personally I find these transmissivity measurements maddening. I wonder what the error margin is? Thing is, when one guy measures 3.5% and the next 7% you're then faced with a 100% increase in light from one to the other. Not that posting your results is a bad thing. It just makes me kind of "itchy".

Now - my question - which I should already know. Has anyone measured transmissivity personally of two panels and gotten such differing measurement and subsequently stuck them into their projector to see if the on-screen results track with the transmissivity measurements? So, the only difference between the two setups would be the supposedly low and high transmissivity panels?

Edit: Say, maybe you're a great negative control. I wonder if you'll get more lumies from one even though the panels are the same?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 22 2007, 12:10 AM

Yea i know of the controvery about transmissivity, but I figured what the heck.

I suppose I could try the panel swap...... in the future, very distant future

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 22 2007, 08:14 PM

got the beast running last night, looks good!

the precon setup is definatly the way to go, the corners look (to me) just as bright as the center now.

I forgot to mention my old pro reflector was pretty much torched, so I have a new one of those now too.

So after aligning everything, I noticed nothing was actually aligned? Before I had my triplet exactly centered releative to my projection screen. and everything was laser aligned and leveled. I also had slightly smuged corners at the time.

Now, while playing with my mirror adjustment, i noticed I could get it to focus all 4 corners if my image was about 1 foot to the right. so i left the mirror there, and slid the projector over about a foot. I now have perfect corner focus and lens shifting?! ok, ill take it.

Then I look at my lamp, and it is off to the side and angled, but that is where I get the most even lighting? hey, ill take that too.

So, even though nothing is actually aligned, everything is in the "sweet spot".

the 3dlens fresnels seem to work very well, i dont see the shadow rings like i did with the LL fresnels. These ones are so clean too! (exept for one pesky black paint particle I have to find and remove with a q tip)

Now one part I am sad about, I have been using my viewsonic LCD monitor to play xbox360 on for the past few weeks, and i have it calibrated nicely. When using the PJ last night, i thought i went color blind. There just is not as much saturation from the lamp (or it might be my white walls killing my contrast ratio.)

So as of now i have a truckload of black velvet on the way to batcave my projection area. Ill see how everything looks after that.

But this weekend, i will have lux measurements, screen shots, pics of the "final" (i hope) build, more temp measurements, and more distance measurements.

youll like this one AV, i had both 7.5 and 4 uf caps on, and then the i heard a click and the the image dissapeared. I said crap i blew a breaker! then I realized the fans were still running. My 5 amp breaker fuse blew i have the ballast running through! so i let her cool off, and just used the 7.5 cap. hehe

cheers!


EDIT: another thing i forgot. I did the precision electrical taping around the border of the LCD (as talked about in the glowie thread). And this eliminated the malteese cross pattern! so my black screen is even, the whole way through!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 23 2007, 03:11 PM

lux measurements

89.5 by 50.25 is screen size converts to 2.901 sq. m.

+0 cap on the ballast
30 32 38
40 47 35
34 33 25
Ave Lux= 34.88888889
Ansi (lum)= 101.2310341
Vignetting (%)= 67.55319149

+4
34 35 30
45 52 38
31 36 27
Ave Lux= 36.44444444
Ansi (lum)= 105.7445197
Vignetting (%)= 58.65384615


+7.5
36 37 32
48 55 40
41 38 28
Ave Lux= 39.44444444
Ansi (lum)= 114.4490991
Vignetting (%)= 62.27272727

+11.5
38 39 33
51 58 42
43 40 30
Ave Lux= 41.55555556
Ansi (lum)= 120.5745438
Vignetting (%)= 62.06896

damn, i thought the middle measurement would be at least like 90 or so... i still need to fine tune, that bottom right corner is a tad dim still.

EDIT: I dont think these were optimal because I couldnt move the lamp back enough. I need to modify the fan exhaust port for more adjustment.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 25 2007, 05:29 PM

I found out what is making the lamp turn off. When my AC unit turns on their is a huge drop in voltage in my house and the lamp looses it's arc (while it is overdrivin, if it is not overdrivin the arc stays).


I also think my lamp is about to die already. I re-adjusted the lamp so it is at the sweet spot and the light is still yellowish.

This is a pic of it with the precon and 330, very yellow light. it is not tuned yet (see the corner)
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02439mm1.jpg

Here is a pic of it before with the 220 and no precon, very white light. same camera settings.
http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02338be7.jpg

AV, did i give it too much power?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 25 2007, 09:33 PM

precision electrical tape around border of LCD to eliminate the malteese cross glowies
http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02412aq8.jpg

done
http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02413tw5.jpg

old LL 650 and 220 fresnels badly warped (because they were clamped down too hard)
http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02415sg4.jpg

the start of the modification of my old fres frames
http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02417sf9.jpg

big square sheetmetal piece with hole cut in it (the new addition)
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02418te5.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 25 2007, 09:35 PM

http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02420lq6.jpg

foam and fresnel laying there
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02422zj5.jpg

2nd plate on top now, creating a sandwich for the fresnel. It is supported on the bottom, and is free floating (so it can expand and stay flat)
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02423ae2.jpg

the assembled fres LCD rack
http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02428qw4.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02430se4.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 25 2007, 09:42 PM

http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02431ev7.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02426au2.jpg

OK, so as of now, i need to...

1. figure out my my light is yellow,!!!!

a. i took the precon out, and the light is still yellowish. (eliminating any abberations that may have been caused by the condenser)

b. So i ordered a fresh S400DD, to start the process of elimination

c. i dont think its the 3dlens fresnels, that wouldnt make sense. The arc spillage is a touch more maybe with this 330 precon/550 setup, (old 220/650)
even tho the arc spillage is more, the light should be white! and if it was abberations, the center at least should be white

d. overdriving it may have caused it? I ran it +8uF for about 220 hours, and + 11.5 for about 10 hours. I dont recall exactly when it turned yellow, since it may have been gradual. But when I did my camera comparison is when I noticed. The settings were the same, I double checked the EXIF data.

c. i do have more cooling on the lamp this time around. if the lamp was too cool, would that cuase it to burn yellow? ill try taking some cooling off it tonight and not overdrive it and seee what happens



2. modify the exhaust area to make another inch or so for lamp movement

3. hang my velvet for the bat cave


Reflections:

I am satisfied (kind of, not really) with my 50 lux middle mesurement, as this is what gadget has with his 400watt wuxga setup. And with my room converted to a batcave, this should be bright enough.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 26 2007, 05:48 AM

s400dd with 27mm arc, 6x8.22 precon, 330/500 .2 3dlens, modified pro triplet

http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02447py1.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02443yd5.jpg



thermocouples anyone?
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02435wa4.jpg

all in *F ambient temp 68

ballast core
+0 cap 124
+4 cap 136
+6 cap 140

reflector
+0 cap 275
TC fell and I was too lazy to put it back...

Condenser
+0 cap 169
+4 cap 177
+6 cap 185

Lower lamp chamber
+0 cap 88
+4 cap 92
+6 cap 92

Upper lamp chamber
+0 cap 96
+4 cao 102
+6 cap 105

Top of 330 fres
+0 cap 105
+4 cao 107
+6 cap 110

between 330 and 550 fres (top)
+0 cap 82
+4 cap 84
+6 cap 85

Top of the LCD triplet mirror area
+0 77
+4 81
+6 82

G2A genesis temp with heatsink and small fan blowing on it
between 98-103 depending on what is going on display wise

Below LCD temp
+0 cap 79
+4 cap 80
+6 cap 81

Posted by: NinHowFritz Jun 26 2007, 10:44 PM

So NN, since the panel color is 262K dithered, do you notice the color gradients at all (especially in really dark or light scenes)? Also could you measure the toshibas' contrast?(maybe using lumens at the triplet for LCD off vs. black screen)

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 27 2007, 12:06 AM

I am very anal, and have not noticed any gradients in dark, or color scenes. The panel and G2A board are very superior to most LCDs and controllers. The limiting factor for it right now is the lamps we use.

Once I get my yellow light figured out, i was planning on doing contrast measurements

The blacks are very good (when the fresnels arent warped)

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 28 2007, 05:09 PM

+ 0 cap no precon
17 24 18
22 32 23
19 25 17
Ave Lux= 21.88888889
Ansi (lum)= 63.51119018
Vignetting (%)= 55.46875


+0 cap no precon AND TAPE REMOVED FROM TRIPLET (now small amount of glowies are back, such as white letters have a glow around them on a black background)
18 28 22
22 34 24
19 27 19
Ave Lux= 23.66666667
Ansi (lum)= 68.66945944
Vignetting (%)= 57.35294118

I let the lamp burn for 4 hours (no overdriving) last night and it still has a yellow tint to it.

Im going to put the precon in and get some more lux measurements without the tape in the triplet. Then wait for my new s400dd, see how the color is and take more lux measurements.

EDIT: and a very quick and dirty contrast experiment. I did a full on full off at the center of the triplet, contrast was 250:1

I will do the checker boxes eventually.

Posted by: arizonavideo Jun 28 2007, 05:53 PM

I replied to your post but it didn't show?

It does look like your lamp has lost its charge. I would try to stay around 8uf with the over drive cap with your new lamp.

I have been waiting and watching to see how a 500 watt condenser system performs.

The Low LUX numbers that you are now getting says something is wrong. A standard S400DD should give around 100 ANSI.

What condenser lens do you have?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 28 2007, 09:24 PM

After the AC unit kicking out my arc with the 11.5uf total, i decided to bring it back down a notch. I have a 6uf and a 4uf cap in there now, I can use one, or the other, or both. I think I am going to use 4uf for movies and 6uf for games. So 11.5uf was too much huh? Will running the lamp like this hurt the ballast or ignitor, i plan on using it until the new lamp arrives?

With fine tuning this setup looks promising. the 550 front fres seems to work ok as well.

The condenser i have is from durachko, which he got from ebay, which was pointed out by you (i think). It is slighly green tinted and FL is about 8.26"

These ones http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=12466&view=findpost&p=160356

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 29 2007, 10:22 PM

my modified triplet has a FL of about 550 mm

distance between lcd and 550 field fres is about 27 mm

distance between field and collimator is about 24 mm

i am still playing with lamp position, the calculator tells me 31mm from arc to plano, and 220 from plano to collimator.

as of now arc to plano is about 31mm and plano to collimator is 240mm

NOTE: these readings are with the "dead lamp", same as the last set of readings. all these lux values are with +0 cap, also fine tuning has not been done, just slapped it in there

no precon, tape strips still there
17 24 18
22 32 23
19 25 17

no precon, tape strips removed from triplet
18 28 22
22 34 24
19 27 19
and a pic to go along with it (note yellow tint, i think bulb is shot)
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02464hg0.jpg

precon installed (not tuned, note dark left corners and dark right site), tape strips removed
33 34 27
38 40 31
34 32 24
and a pic, notice the improvement over no precon
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02465kw6.jpg

also note the redings are lower then the readings i took the 23rd, which tells me the lamp is gettings worse

good news is new lamp is here! going to install, let it burn in for 8-10 hours on +0 cap. take some lux readings and a screen shot to see color temp. Then fine tune the reflector and precon.

wish me luck

Posted by: D33G4N Jun 30 2007, 04:55 PM

i just read this and nice pj. and for next time save your fingers twisting those wires by chucking them up in a cordless drill and holding one end then let the drill twist them for you. its an old car stereo trick i used to use.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jun 30 2007, 05:07 PM

D33G4N: thanks for the compliment! and the tip

well the new lamp definatly looks better than the old one, it still has a green tint, i only had time to break in in for 6.5 hours.

+0 cap precon NEW S400DD 6.5hours
31 38 34
38 48 38
36 41 33
Ave Lux= 37.22222222
Ansi (lum)= 108.0012625
Vignetting (%)= 68.75
http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02484tg9.jpg


+6 cap precon NEW S400DD 6.5hours
37 46 42
45 58 47
43 49 40
Ave Lux= 45.2222222
Ansi (lum)= 131.2134741
Vignetting (%)= 69.82758621
http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02485yf2.jpg



We will see if the lamp turns as white as before (old lamp, 220/650 no precon) I have to take into account my camera; even though in manual mode may not be consistent. Also, MAYBE, somehow, the 3dlens tinted it, or there is some weird abberation phenomena happening. Even at 6.5 hours I am satisfied with the lamp. I can tell it looks drastically better than the old lamp (when it turned yellow). The only reference I have for the old lamp when it was new is that picture, and it is very white and bright.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 2 2007, 07:18 AM

Forza Motorsport 2 Vid

http://img532.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mov02509hq5.flv

copy and paste the link into your browser

The quality is terrible, but I thought it would be fun to post for sheets and giggles


and some screen shots

http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02500zm6.jpg
http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02501cn2.jpghttp://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02502qe6.jpghttp://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02503nd4.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02504yh3.jpg

Cam settings,
.625 second shutter speed (1/1.6)
f2.8
daylight white balance

these look pretty accurate on my computer screen

lux still climbing as the lamp burns in

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 3 2007, 05:52 PM

Cam settings,
.625 second shutter speed (1/1.6) OR 1" for dark scenes
f2.8
daylight white balance

http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02610so3.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02609zz9.jpg

http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02608vi7.jpg
http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02606ho1.jpg
http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02604wx4.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 3 2007, 05:53 PM

http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02597lv4.jpg
http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02595sg6.jpg
http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02594nj3.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02592dp6.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02587hb3.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 3 2007, 05:55 PM

these shots turned out dark, im going to re-take them

http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02585tw2.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02583eo5.jpg
http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02581ud9.jpg

http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02574jh8.jpg

http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02569is0.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 3 2007, 07:37 PM

http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02564yl8.jpg

http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02566ox4.jpg
http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02565ei6.jpg

Posted by: verboten1 Jul 3 2007, 07:56 PM

awesome game shots!!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 3 2007, 08:03 PM

thank you!

more

on saturday I went to an emmagine entertainment theatre in Canton michigan. All digital DLP theatre, very nice quality. You can even get a beer and watch the movie! I saw even almighty, very good movie. Funny, good moral values, nice overall . But at the beggining they had the bee movie trailer, i almost wet myself it looked so amazing! So i get home, fire up my PJ, download the trailer in HD on xboxlive, and I almost wet myself again


http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02559ex0.jpg
http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02558sm0.jpg
http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02556vv6.jpg
http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02555nt3.jpg
http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02552ll3.jpg

for some reason the camera didnt pick up the green very well, in person it is neon like a real tennis ball

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 3 2007, 08:05 PM

http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02551sz2.jpg
http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02550js2.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02549ef4.jpg
http://img127.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02548pc8.jpg
http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02547em5.jpg

the bottom right corner isnt dark either

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 3 2007, 08:06 PM

http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02546dk5.jpg
http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02545nb2.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02544la9.jpg
this one came out dark
http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02542kb6.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 3 2007, 08:08 PM

got these from smmp-foto.de
http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02541zx3.jpg
http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02540hy4.jpg

this is a 10 second exposure of my black screen, to show how even the black level is
http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02538qv4.jpg

you can slightly see the bright edges, these are not noticed in person, and were very bad before i taped the border of the LCD panel

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 3 2007, 08:11 PM

http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02534kb0.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02536qf5.jpg

these two, again, the camera did not pick up the green. and the camera crushed the low and high blacks and whites. the colors are very saturated in person. with +6uF the lamp makes very nice red and green. Blue seems to come in better also? However, the S400DD still lacks in the blue a little bit. Nothing to be too upset about though.

conan came out a bit dark
http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02560ye6.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02561vo0.jpg

nice orange too
http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02533iw3.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 3 2007, 08:12 PM

http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02466di5.jpg

light engine. dont mind the miller lite can..... there is a boston lager to make up for it behind it

tonight,

lamp has 30 hours on it already!! so a final 0, 4 and 6 cap lux meter results

retake 5th element shots, didnt turn out wel, may turn shutter speed to 1/1.3 or 1

take closeups of corners and center to see the pixels

take some screen shots of non aminated hd movies (worlds fastest indian, departed)

Also, i can take requests for screen shots! yes i figured out how to use my camera and am having fun with it now!

Posted by: arizonavideo Jul 4 2007, 05:52 AM

The newest screens look great; vary even vignetting and nice color.


Can you send me a full rez JPEG or a link of the NOKIA test pattern? I have a test pattern but I wand one to make a DVD out of so I can set the levels when playing.

Thanks

A/V

Posted by: scoodidabop Jul 4 2007, 01:38 PM

WoW bro!

Very nice looking results!!! I'm impressed by the your even black screen as well...

I better get crackin on my new build. Mine isn't even in this realm!

Nice work!

Posted by: x_25 Jul 4 2007, 02:22 PM

Wow thoes screens are amazing. I dont think ive seen any other projectors with lighting this evin. Eving the black screen looks almost evin and that is a true accompleshment. Good job on this. I hope my projector turn out half as good as this one because then it would be amazing.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 4 2007, 08:45 PM

guys, thank you for the compliments!

AV

here you go,

1280x720
http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nokiauf1.jpg

1600x1200
http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nokia2ul2.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 6 2007, 05:07 PM

worlds fastest indian HDDVD, one of my favorite movies, this guy was a true DIYer

offerings of the DIYer
http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02634ky4.jpg

http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02637pc2.jpg

http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02638ch1.jpg

http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02639qw9.jpg

http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02640tj5.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 6 2007, 05:08 PM

Deptarted HDDVD

pretty boy
http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02642bl9.jpg

amazing detail
http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02643bx8.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02646ep1.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 6 2007, 05:10 PM

PIP on the g2a 130

http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02678xs8.jpg
http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02679os3.jpg
http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02680gm1.jpg
http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02681zr5.jpg

that function will be nice once I get HD cable hooked up to my PJ

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 6 2007, 05:12 PM

http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02674wy1.jpg

http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02673nm4.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02670ci3.jpg

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 6 2007, 05:36 PM

And the lilu shots

http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02652nh3.jpg

http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02656uc5.jpg

http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02658lg1.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02662ib4.jpg

http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02667rj3.jpg

i think those turned out better.

Posted by: Durachko Jul 6 2007, 05:44 PM

Those be schweeeeet!!!

You need the one where she dives into the traffic.

Posted by: scoodidabop Jul 6 2007, 06:10 PM

I'm impressed.

Very nice newbie

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 12 2007, 12:07 AM

Well, i have had the black background, white text (with a haze around it) glowie problem.

Ronin has a theory here http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=19019&view=findpost&p=240190

So I lathed the chamfer in my triplet tonight. Going to see if that fixes it.


Also i want to figure out why my image is not as bright as before

now http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02485yf2.jpg

before http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02337fp3.jpg

In addition to new fresnels and the precon...

i now have about 100cfm of air flowing through the lamp chamber, it was 60cfm.

Also, i now have fresh cold (room air) air being blown on the lamp, precon and reflector by a 80mm fan. it used to be the same fan blowing lamp chamber air on the lamp and reflector

Also, i tried running 11.5uf overcapacitance, this may of hurt the ballast somehow? (im not sure how, unless some of the coating on the wires melted, but i would have smelled that, and i did not smell any melting). Also when my old lamp lost its arc, the ballast was on for about a minute before i turned it off. again if it was damaged i think i would have smelled melting.

My guess is I am overcooling the lamp. I am going to go back to 60cfm through the lamp chamber, and maybe turn off the fan blowing on the lamp for 7 minutes to see if it gets brighter. I am sitting at about 54 lux in the center right now with +6uf. From the looks of that picture im guessing I used to have 80+ lux with +4uf. (i with i had a luxmeter at that time...) Could the 3dlens fresnels block that much extra light in the center of the screen vs. the LL fresnels?

EDIT: last note; before I was doubting my camera, but it seems to be consistant and exif data is the same

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 13 2007, 05:46 AM

..................

modded triplet already painted black http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02692hh4.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02691sq8.jpg
http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02698lc3.jpg

it helped with glowies/ghosting. but they are definatly still there.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 13 2007, 05:49 AM

and im now saddened.

i used my old samsung (same transmissivity as toshiba) and old LL fresnels; to make this test rig.

http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02695ec5.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02696na3.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02697vz0.jpg


i didnt even tweak it, or switch on my capicitor, and i had 79 center lux.

http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02694zm2.jpg

Posted by: arizonavideo Jul 13 2007, 08:04 AM

Have you checked if the LCD is running at 100%

I have found windows does not drive the RGB of the LCD to full on and the software DVD player sets the levels even lower. So I set the RGB in the LCD.

Almost all the LCD are around 5% transmissive I don't see why yours should be different.

With the triplet out you should be able to make a arc image at about the middle of the triplet position. During lamp start up you can place a piece of paper there and see if the lamp is in focus. You should have the lamp image and the reflector image right on top of each other.

Do you have any spillage at the triplet?

Are the Fresnel flipped?

I would think you should be able to get to 180 ANSI if everything is right. The fact that your starting at 65 is too low, most LL PJ's make around 90 to 100 LUX with no condenser or over drive.

The lamps need some cooling but I have not seen the cooling make a large change in brightness and I have forgot to turn on the fans when testing.

Your screens look like what you get when you set the lamp and condenser for best vingeting, vary even but with some loss of LUX. Move the condenser away from the lamp untill the corners of the screen start to dim and then move the lamp just slightly closer to the condenser if you can.

Its working and looks good just fine tuning left to do.

I do have some extra 1200 watt lamps.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 13 2007, 09:29 AM

Well im using the xbox360, and it is driving the LCD to 100%, verified

I did the sunlight test, 7% transmissive.

Arc image is focused at center of triplet, verified

The actual arc fits the triplet, i can see the edges of the arc chamber on the outside of the tripet (like where the glass is pinched)

Fresnels are correct, verified

for some reason the combination of the precon and 3Dlens fresnels cut my center lux by like 35.

I will try the condenser tweaking like you said. As of now I have it at 31mm from arc to plano as per the calculator (but that could be off, since it is theory, not practice, hehe)

It does look good, i just want it to look better! 1200, dont tempt me.....

here are a few pics of the engine

http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02688dg4.jpg
http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02685uq5.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02684db3.jpg
http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02683yh2.jpg

OCD at its best.......

Posted by: DAZZZLA Jul 13 2007, 12:15 PM

What pre-con are you using? And why did you use the 550mm FL 3dlens fresnel?

DJ

Posted by: umesh kumar Jul 13 2007, 04:13 PM

Pics were great specially the "the fastest indian".I want to know
1=Your screen size?
2=What material are you using for your screen?
3=Please let me know through pics if you can how to align the lamp as you have mentioned above using some paper?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 13 2007, 06:47 PM

I have a link to it in the previous page or 2. It was from a spotlight off ebay, A/V found it and i picked it up off Durachko. 6"" diameter and 8.26" FL (152.4mm and 209.8mm)
I am using the 3D 550 because my LL one was badly scuffed, and the 550 would fit my new frame design without cutting.

Do you think the 550 is causing the high loss of lux in the center?



1. 103" 16:9 and I sit 165 inches away
2. Primered painters canvas (i got mine from dick blick art supply)
3. Just move the lamp around with your hand while watching a white screen. You will see when the light gets brightest and even, then look at the back of your triplet and make sure the arc image is centered

Posted by: umesh kumar Jul 14 2007, 02:22 AM

Thank you from the bottom of my heart first
Now i think you have forgotten to explain to me the procedure for aligning the reflector.Please do that.I have a ladle to be used as a reflector.Would that work?
Which directions(forward /backward/up/down) is the reflector to be moved?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 14 2007, 03:01 AM

You are very welcome.

For the reflector...

ladles will work and people have had sucess with them (such as SIMUL8r, a combination of a bowl/ladle and the pro reflector)

but for a t15 style lamp the LL pro reflector is the best so far

this is from the tweaks guide thanks to DAZ; regaurding alignment

So, how do I adjust my reflector? Member DAZZZLA described this method to me for a spherical reflector. When properly adjusted if you look toward the lamp/reflector (with the lamp off, of course) you shouldn't be able to see the arc chamber reflection. Position your head straight-on looking at the lamp/reflector and note the arc chamber image in the mirror. Bob your head around (left, right, up, down) and the arc chamber reflection should remain "hidden" in the reflector. If you can see the arc chamber that means the reflector isn't in the sweet spot. There are tiny exceptions to this rule (sometimes you may want your arc chamber slightly closer to or further from the reflector along the line of projection) but this will get you very accurately centered. Also, DAZZZLA relates you can determine how well the reflector is aligned by taking note of the sharpness of the edge shadow your lamp/reflector casts when you position an iris appropriately for the light to shine through. If the reflected arc isn't aligned with the real arc you'll get a double shadow.
To determine the sweet spot for your arc (lamp) +/- reflector +/- precondensor move them as a unit fore/aft until you see bluish/yellowish corners. Use the centerpoint as your optimal placement. Some minor tweaking off that spot may or may not produce your favorite projection. {from DAZZZLA}


A link to the tweaks guide is here, very good read, i recommend it to anyone

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9870

Posted by: arizonavideo Jul 14 2007, 08:08 AM

I forgot how nice of a light engine you made.

The further the lamp is from the condenser the brighter the image will be.

You can see the round light pattern around the collector fresnel from the condenser lens when the lamp is on. It should be almost touching the LCD on the 4 corners. As you move the lamp away from the condenser the light cone it makes becomes smaller and much more intense.

For any condenser to lamp setting their is only a small range that the lamp can be at and still make nice even light. It looks like your lamp mount has lots of adjustment for that.

So I bet if you remove four of the 8 nuts on the condenser mount you will gain some LUX, maybe all 8?

7% is a vary transmissive LCD you should get nice hight numbers.

The fine pitched 550mm fresnels should be a little dimer than the pro fresnels, I forget the exact # but it was like 5% or so.

Posted by: DAZZZLA Jul 14 2007, 09:47 AM

Yes especially if you have a modified triplet. The triplet will have a new FL of 550mm so it will be around 628mm from the LCD for a 120” screen. Add to that the gap to the fresnel if your using un-split and your looking at a mismatch of <80mm.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 14 2007, 01:36 PM

Ok, that is true, the mismatch of ~80mm; however my arc fits the triplet (when i hold a piece of paper there with a 100mm circle drawn on it). When it comes down to it, isn't that all that matters? hmmm, i suppose i could get another LL 650 field fres and use that, and see what happens.

A/V, i will try moving the precon away from the lamp and take some lux readings.

Thanks for the help guys!

EDIT: never let me have a credit card and the internet, I just ordered a new LL 650

Posted by: DAZZZLA Jul 14 2007, 03:48 PM

A 650mm LL fresnel, which is actually 600mm, will still produce the same arc magnification. So your spot size will still be about the same size. But because its FL is closer to what is required then it will work more efficiently.
A simple test to see if the arc fits is to look back through the triplet when the lamp is on. But set the LCD to a black screen or use two polarizers crossed so that you don’t blind yourself. Check it from the extreme edges of the screen. You should be able to see the entire arc if all things are matched up correctly.

DJ

Posted by: NinHowFritz Jul 14 2007, 05:49 PM

Wait, so the FL of the LL650 fresnel is actually 600mm??

Posted by: jonjandran Jul 14 2007, 06:53 PM

Yes 600-610mm

Posted by: arizonavideo Jul 16 2007, 08:48 AM

The further you are away from the 610mm or 550mm focal point the more shading will happen from the groves cut into the fresnel.

A little change is fine but when you get to 10% or so you may be able to see it.


What does the light cone at the back of the collector fresnel look like? Does it touch the side of the box or is it nice and tight?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 16 2007, 08:51 PM

DAZ, with the paper in front of the triplet the arc fits, I will look into the triplet with my welding mask tonight to see if I can actually see the end of the arc.

A/V, The light cone on the back of the collector frame can be seen. I would say there is about an inch extra on the corners (that is why my vig is so high).

Tonight I will look at my arc through the triplet and then move my condenser further away from the lamp, and take lux readings as it is now (per the calculator 31mm) and when its moved further away.

Then when I get the LL650 in I will do the comarisons again.

Im at 54 lux with +6cap in the center now, and with my old lense setup I had 79 lux with +0cap in the center. If I can get back to that 80 lux in the center I think I may finally stop tweaking.

I understand what you guys are saying about being in the FL range of the field fres, and how it looses efficiency as you get away from the FL. The shading from rings and all that.

Also, theoretically the smaller the gap between the fresnels the brighter , correct? Not massively brighter, but a small amount?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 17 2007, 06:22 AM

OK,

plano to arc 31mm (per preconcalc), and how ive had it since the rebuild and some "tweaking"**
30 37 33
38 43 39
35 39 33
Ave Lux= 36.33333333
Ansi (lum)= 105.4221279
Vignetting (%)= 76.1627907

plano to arc 47mm
37 43 42
47 53 51
43 47 42
Ave Lux= 45
Ansi (lum)= 130.568690
Vignetting (%)= 77.35849057

i noticed i was at 58 (the nipple hotspot) right after the rebuild (when i just slapped everything in there), but i moved the lamp since then "tweaking"** and ended up with 43 lux in the center. Now after tweaking again per A/Vs recommendations im back at 57 lux(the hotspot) and 53 lux center (yes i cheat with my measurements)

So that is good, light cone was tightish, it is now as tight as it can get.
http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02699ai3.jpg
yes my lexan has lines all over it, and it is not noticeable in the projection

i still have faith in the LL650/610/600 as per DAZZ, to bring me up in the 70s or higher center lux. (i want 100 center lux so bad!)


it seems with the plano to arc further away, the whole light engine is closer to the collector fres, i didnt take measurements, and its time for xbox 360


other side notes worth mentioning...

I modded my triplet again, with a 8mm spacer instead of the 3.62mm spacer, glowies are lessened again, and my PJ moved closer to my screen, and it is overfilled on the sides by a few inches in 16:9 mode, as you can see with the ansi test pattern http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02704vz0.jpg

while playing around, with the lux meter, and everything else fixed, if the triplet is closer to the screen i get higher lux readings (even though it is unfocused) Does this mean optimally I would want my field fres to triplet be at that distance?

pics of the arc in the triplet, it just BARLEY fits. http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02700lt7.jpghttp://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02701is8.jpg

** may not have been sober when performing these so called tweaking sessions.

Posted by: arizonavideo Jul 17 2007, 08:35 AM

It looks like you are geting closer to max LUX. The picture of the condenser light cone on the back of the fresnel says a lot. You may have to move the lamp slightly too.

I'm still not sure why the LUX readings are a little low. I know you could use a slightly shorter fl condenser (none to be found) but I would think you would be close to 200 lumen when your done.

A 300mm rear fresnel would be nice too but I have not seen any slightly short large ones either.

It still looks nice for a S400DD lamp system.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 17 2007, 06:29 PM

Oh i moved the lamp also, it is on a slide rail , and i can slide the condenser back and forth oh the lamp stand. Very dynamic!

It does look dam good, but I know that for my taste, i need that 80-90 lux in the center I had before.

Im going to let it be for now until I get the LL field fres in and see what that does for me.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 20 2007, 09:10 PM

Some non PJ news and excitement!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orange_Box is being released on oct 9th!!!! I've always been a huge fan of the HL series and never had a computer capable of playing games past HL 1. I played the xbox port of HL 2 on my 20 inch TV 2 years go. I am SO STOKED to play it in 1080 on a 103" screen!!!!!!! Not only that, episode one and two i have not played, the new team fortress and portal!!!!





Theres nothing better than playing a FPS with a mouse and keyboard, well i have a xbox360. what to do, hmm. XFPS 360. lets you connect a mouse and keyboard to your 360! http://www.xcm.cc/XFPS_360_PRO.htm

Here is a video of it in action
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UNFUJFK9EDo

I am in the process of building a racing cockpit for forza 2. On top of that I am going to have an integrated keyboard and mouse for the ultimage gaming chair. Complete with buttkicker gamer. That should be done soon with pics.

Batcave conversion is almost complete, look for updates soon in my HT plog

Lastly, LL650 fres is on the way, well see if that brings up my lux, then I may finally submit some pics in the completed projectors

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 21 2007, 10:53 PM

So after tweaking some more i got my center lux up to 62. then I removed the lexan xl-10 and center lux is up to 72.

Some thoughts on mogul lamps. they have a UV protective (90%) shell. These same lamps are used in streetlights and in factories/wharehouses where people work. So they whould have to emit only a safe level of UV correct? I do notice with the lexan in, it takes more time to charge my remote glow in the dark buttons (it may just be the less lux, may also be slightly less UV.) Thus im taking my lexan out, as jonjandran did, he ran his for 15 months no problem.




PS im making some nics calibration tools and images,

oh, and have my EYE on another lamp

Posted by: arizonavideo Jul 22 2007, 06:06 AM

I think the S400DD needs UV protection.

Is this the new lamp?

http://cgi.ebay.com/MSD-575-274795-Lamp-Bulb-MSD575-DJ-Club-Light_W0QQitemZ170062898412

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 22 2007, 04:29 PM

Ahh your right, says on the box maybe i will be daring.

That is a nice lamp! but thats not the one

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 24 2007, 08:47 AM

A/V, would an S51 run that lamp you linked to?

But the lamp I have my "EYE" on is ceramic, 250watt, 15mm arc, and i should be able to pick it up in 2 weeks. A/V, you know which one. I think I will be the first LLer to try it, and I am excited to provide it's results to the community.

So I took the 2nd half of summer off school, and I have spend more time studying optics, light, and anything the Omniscient's here have to say. I finished elkens 106 page ceramic thread. There is a TON of info in there on everything.

One thing that I really thought was important is the actual calibration of our PJs. I dont care how good our optics are, how good our lamps are, how good of specs our LCDs have, how good everthing is aligned, or even how bright it is --- if our PJs are not calibrated, IT WILL NOT LOOK RIGHT.

Between a digital camera, lux meter, and some select calibration images we can calibrate your PJs fairly well. A colorometer would be helpful, but those are expensive.

So, mods, in a few days, after some more research and after I collect more materials, I will be starting an ACTUAL calibration discussion thread. Not just a thread linking to images or cheezy gamma calculators. I have learned alot lately in my own tinkerings, and reading websites, and from the discussion between elken, ogo, and others in the 106 page ceramic thread.


PS a side note to the above: some people do simple builds and are totally happy with the results, which is great!

But for true DIY and tinkerers, what is the point of building a physically mechanically perfect PJ, if software/programming/calibration wise it is all out of wack. That is building a PJ in vain!!!!!!

PS PS

Posted by: Durachko Jul 24 2007, 12:17 PM

Looking forward to your calibration discussion NN. Temporarily foregoing your education for the greater good of LL? Wow!

Posted by: elken2004 Jul 24 2007, 01:00 PM

ummm did someone mention me here...... cheeesy grins

Posted by: umesh kumar Jul 24 2007, 04:25 PM

Natural Newbie aren't you worried about the UV emitted by all the discharge lamps (even though the people say it is too little.What is your stand to it.I have been worried for a long time & you must have seen it.Can you suggest some measure to detect the presence of these?

Posted by: fmerrill Jul 24 2007, 04:40 PM

Umesh, I respect that you are worried about UV, but you really need to stop. You are putting posts all over this forum about UV. You even have a thread specifically about it. You need to be careful, but I think you are being obsessive about it.

Posted by: NinHowFritz Jul 24 2007, 06:17 PM

I have a feeling this is me

Posted by: Durachko Jul 24 2007, 06:48 PM

For shame on you NN!!! Did you mean Nin? Come on . . . spill the beans!!!

I'm certain NN was not casting asparagus (lame family joke) upon ya Nin. We appreciate all input here. Even if it is a little reminiscent of limburger.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 25 2007, 12:31 AM

I am cautious, but not worried. I have ran it without the lexan UV filter for a few days now; and do not feel any irritation or headaches, or sick feeling from using the PJ.



Just because you posted a gamma calculator doesn't mean it was you

As D said, all input is welcomed and read!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 26 2007, 01:26 AM

The more I learn about calibrating displays, the more I realize it is a friggin pain in the bum if you want it perfect (and need to spend lots of money on colorometers and software)! But I am still confident we can get close with some test patterns, a digital camera, photo shop (everyone has this, legit copy or not...) and a lux meter.

Posted by: jonjandran Jul 26 2007, 01:37 AM

And just a small personal note.

I bought a projector that was ISF calibrated. I watched it for a few minutes and then promptly set it up the way I wanted it. $300 extra dollars down the drain.

I read stuff like this all the time in Home Theater magazines. "Once you have your projector/T.V. professionally calibrated be sure to watch it for a few weeks so that you get used to how it looks. It may at first not look good to you because you are used to an overly bright , overly saturated image. But give it some time and you will get used to watching your display the way it was meant to be seen."

i'm sorry but this is complete and utter BS. I want my projector to look good to me. if it seems to dark , or to blue, or to red, I am not going to waste my time watching it. I don't care what some computer or professional says my projector should look like. I decide what I like and thats the way I want it.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Jul 26 2007, 02:28 AM

I like your attitude :-D

Posted by: arizonavideo Jul 27 2007, 09:32 AM

Elken,

Nope, You met a girl and left us all for so long. I'm still hurt.

Can they reset your posting #?

Posted by: NinHowFritz Jul 27 2007, 10:13 AM

Better watch out, he's going to beat you to 3000! ---

Posted by: elken2004 Jul 29 2007, 01:07 PM

3000,, just a number,, not a race.. she came back 4 days later,, fear not i am still here,, more yet to be done still,,, winter here,,, need warm days,,,, 10.6 lurking to be completed very soon...

Posted by: Durachko Aug 7 2007, 06:43 PM

Yo Newb. I've been doing some looking and somehow it only now hit me the Tosh is 50ms. Now all along me and a lot of others have been saying 25ms is pretty much the max response time to shoot for to avoid ghosting. You've no issues with your Tosh refresh rate do you??? And you DO game obviously. TIA

Posted by: x_25 Aug 7 2007, 06:56 PM

Durachko, i have had a theory about the refresh rates for a while. The colder the panel the slower it is and the warmer the panel the higher it is. Right? (at least that is my experience, using a palm pilot outside when it is only 15*f the refresh rate droped considerably.) I dont know how much of a difference it makes but the lcds in our projectors are run at considerably high temperatures. So my thought is that the refresh rate gets better and that is why there isn't much of a problem.

Posted by: Durachko Aug 7 2007, 07:38 PM

Interesting observation. Never thought of that. I do know my LCD gets quite warm during use - the one NOT in my projector. I'll have to fire my optical thermometer at it sometime to see what the temp really is.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Aug 7 2007, 08:28 PM

I do game, yes, very much indeed

Remember back in the day, playing half life (counterstrike), quake 2, and wolfenstien enemy territory. We all had 19" CRT screens and running 120 FPS? Well that was the optimum setup for zero ghosting.

Now, I have a viewsonic 20" vx2000 LCD, and it says 25 ms. I can see ghosting (not super bad, but its there all the time) when I played half life (the original).

When I played half life (the original) on my PC using the projector. I did notice the very slightest bit of ghosting at times (you had to concentrate and look for it to notice). *** I would say, a semi pro/harcore gamer would say this panel is fine for multilplayer first person shooters*** Remember, these toshiba 15.4 screens were in the dell XPS gaming laptop. Yes, the very expensive ones for the "hardcore" gamer. So even tho the specs may say 25 or 50 ms. These screens were designed for a gaming machine! Not only that, who knows how they got the spec? Was is black to white to black, black to white, grey to grey? Some other crazy way? Who knows.

the warming up theory is a good one and I do beleive that the pixels twist faster the warmer they get (to a point)

Posted by: jonjandran Aug 7 2007, 09:57 PM

Actually I'm going to change the 15.4" Fyi thread right now about the Toshiba. The datasheet says 50ms MAX not typical. i would estimate the typical at 35ms going by the standard differences between typical and max on the other 15.4" Wuxga panels.

Posted by: freefall Aug 11 2007, 09:11 PM

NN....did your new ushio burn in to about the same brightness as your old one yet? Mine didn't seem as bright as the LL bulb.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Aug 11 2007, 11:47 PM

Yes after about 10 hours the brightness was the same as the old s400dd.

Posted by: Garfing Sharks Aug 12 2007, 01:06 AM

Oh man that brings back so many memories! I remember tweaking my setup in Quake 3 so I could get as many frames as I could because you could make certain jumps that you couldn't make if your FPS were too low haha.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Aug 16 2007, 01:13 AM

Oh yea, i remember the FPS tricks....

So, I've been so lazy lately. I have a LL 650 fresnel sitting there waiting to be cut (for about a month...), so I can install it in my frame. And see if It increases my lux at all. Someone make me take my sled out sunday night, so I can have the new lens in by monday.

Another note, my new lamp that no one has used yet should be arriving soon. Should be interesting.

EDIT: oh yea, i want to look for another precon to play around with also. i was playing with the calculator last week, and I could go down to like a 6x7.9 , i also want a clear one, i have a feeling this green one is playing with my colors, I have to do some testing to prove that, just been too lazy :-P

Posted by: Natural Newbie Aug 22 2007, 01:41 AM

ok, so with the 3dlens 550 and modified pro triplet i had 62 center lux

now, with the LL 650 and modified pro triplet, i have 62 center lux, and a black nipple in the middle of my projection....

Posted by: Natural Newbie Aug 24 2007, 09:10 AM

Well, swapping the fresnels was a tad dissapointing, but at least it proves something.

Also, i called my local lamp supplier, and the eye cera arc 250W is on back order.

Posted by: Natural Newbie Aug 31 2007, 08:51 PM

Well I ordered two of these http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3381.html

The standard 4.5x6.5, see if it cracks with my 400w setup, and save the other one for when my 250w lamp comes in.

I will be putting the 550 fresnel back in also, eventually.

Posted by: NinHowFritz Aug 31 2007, 10:22 PM

Interesting, so they are both about 600-610mm FL.

Posted by: mdmfootball Sep 1 2007, 06:01 PM

Hey naturalnewbie if you had to pick did you like the samsung or toshiba panel better?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Sep 4 2007, 07:46 AM

Toshiba

Easier(est) to remove AG and no side ribbons.

And cheap on ebay!

Posted by: cornmeal Sep 4 2007, 04:45 PM

but how does that toshiba do with fast moving images like games and such how much ghosting will you get?

Posted by: Natural Newbie Sep 4 2007, 04:58 PM

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=14842&view=findpost&p=245749

Posted by: NinHowFritz Sep 4 2007, 09:02 PM

The toshiba bothers me as far as ghosting, for instance in a movie, camera slowly panning over a scene, you can't read anything that is panning... I think I'm the only one that notices, noone else watching even knows what ghosting is...

Posted by: Natural Newbie Sep 4 2007, 11:09 PM

Mine doesn't have that problem, and I am the most anal person you will ever meet. Maybe the toshibas have more than one variety?

Posted by: NinHowFritz Sep 4 2007, 11:34 PM

Possibly

Or maybe I'm more anal than you

Heres pics of all the numbers off the back of my panel:
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21805&hl=

Posted by: cornmeal Sep 5 2007, 02:46 AM

how can we prove who is more anal?

and I think I would notice just like I do playing games on a 16ms lcd

Posted by: Garfing Sharks Sep 5 2007, 11:15 AM

We make them live together for a couple months, and see who goes crazy first!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Sep 5 2007, 09:09 PM

LOL, argueing who is more anal, leads into a reality TV show... Hehe

Posted by: sarunoatama Sep 6 2007, 09:53 PM

Since it has come up again... would the ghosting seen in the video of forza racing you posted a while back be roughly indicative of what you see? Like where the little 4, 3, 2, 1 white signs go by they ghost real bad in the video. Or is that an artifact of the video camera or capturing/encoding the video? Or maybe the game is doing motion blurring?

Thanks for all the work you've put into your PLOG.

Posted by: cornmeal Sep 6 2007, 09:59 PM

where is this video? linky please

Posted by: Natural Newbie Sep 6 2007, 10:15 PM

its post #207

That video was taken with a point and shoot sony (30fps), then compressed badly to imageshack. So that video looks like total snot compared to what I see.

The lights are silky smooth in person. The only things I have noticed is when you turn, certain clouds have a slight blurr effect (if its ghosting that Is the only thing I have noticed it on, it may be game intentional as well)



So for the past few weeks, ive seen a few bees flying around my front porch, no big deal right? Well today a package arrived on my front porch (my new precon i think) and I open the door and there is about 300 bees swarming the box and attacking it!!! I thought holy crap its a locust infestation. So on the way to work i bought some killer spray, the battle for my precon will be on tonight when i attack them while theyre sleeping muahahahaha!.

Posted by: cornmeal Sep 7 2007, 06:42 AM

Nice, thanks dont know how I missed that post on my first trip through this plog... lol

the only thing I can see in the video are the white signs passing seem to ghost but that as you also mentioned may be a game element to convey speed

I may have to pick up a toshiba and part ways with my samsung.

I wish I had F2 to compare it too but I never really got into racing sims and the next one I will buy is going to be GT5 if anything (did grab the 360 dirt demo though)

Posted by: Garfing Sharks Sep 7 2007, 11:23 AM

LOL!! You need to let us know how this battle turns out!

Posted by: Durachko Sep 7 2007, 12:51 PM

Honeybees? Wasps? Hornets? If there are/were really 300 then they must've been honeybees. That's rather odd behavior for honeybees. Did they actually converge upon the box and settle there? If so, that's a swarm and you've no worries as they'll leave soon enough. And swarms are DOCILE. Seriously. Don't kill them if they're honeybees dude. Only 300 is a pitiful number though even for a secondary swarm. Indulge me and take a picture if it ain't too late. Even if it's only of the aftermath of your spray bomb.

Posted by: Garfing Sharks Sep 7 2007, 12:56 PM

My children, gather round! No retreat, no surrender; that is Honey Bee law and by Honey Bee law we will stand and fight... and die. A new age has begun. An age of freedom, and will know, that 300 Honey Bee's gave their last breaths to defend it! HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!

Posted by: Natural Newbie Sep 7 2007, 08:50 PM

cornmeal, the signs passing by are silky smooth in person as well.

The battle of 300
flying stingy things 0
me 300 (or however many of them there were)

I couldnt tell if they looked like this

or like this

or like this

or like this

Either way I bombed underneath my porch where they were residing, and filled all the cracks with filler. So no more pesky bugs can make a fortress undearneath my porch and I can get my mail in peace!

I have a video, im going to make a youtube account to post it.


ok, on to important stuff. hehe

Tonight at work I will be modifying my condenser mount for the SS 4.5x6.5
Before removing the green glass one I have, i did a test with my digicam and white balance. The green glass does add a considerable green tint to the image, so with the SS condenser I will be able to raise my green level on the LCD a little bit. Hopefully this SS condsenser will hold up to the overclocked 400w.

Still no news on the eye cera arc 250W i ordered.

On another note I will be taking a vacation in England with my girlfriend sept 12 through the 25th, it should be a fun time!

Posted by: blake Sep 8 2007, 02:09 AM

This reminds of a quote from Peter Griffin - "Just don't forget our deal, Lois. I sit through this and later tonight I get anal. You hear me? No matter how neat I want the house you have to clean it."